Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: A [pretty easy] test position and my blind program

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 21:17:26 01/19/01

Go up one level in this thread


On January 19, 2001 at 21:51:09, Uri Blass wrote:

>On January 19, 2001 at 21:33:08, John Merlino wrote:
>
>>On January 19, 2001 at 17:23:03, Scott Gasch wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>Here's a pretty simple test position.  This comes from the WAC suite... my
>>>engine does fairly well on this suite as a whole but seems blind to this
>>>solution.
>>>
>>>[D]8/7p/5k2/5p2/p1p2P2/Pr1pPK2/1P1R3P/8 b - -
>>>
>>>The solution is Rxb2 -- black's connected passers are unstoppable after the
>>>recapture.
>>>
>>>My program refuses to find this solution... even at 9 ply it misses it.  The
>>>strange thing is that from the other side after Rxb2 it sees that white is toast
>>>very quickly... score dropping to -500 or so after about 1 second.
>>>
>>>My question is, of course, how this move is missed.  I've tried kicking up the
>>>value of connected passers and passed pawns in general.  I've tried adding a
>>>special rule to eval about connected passers on the 7th, on move, with control
>>>of a queening square.  I've tried cutting back my futility margin in qsearch and
>>>always extending a full ply for checks (It usually extends only 3/4 ply for
>>>checks after the iteration depth).  And still it does not find Rxb2.
>>>
>>>Even stranger is if I run a static eval with the two connected passers rolling
>>>towards the queening square after the rook exchange the eval puts black ahead!
>>>I can't seem to figure this out... either my pruning is too aggressive or there
>>>is some other bug in the engine...?
>>>
>>>I hope someone out there can give me a little advice.  Thanks!
>>>
>>>Scott
>>
>>Just to make things difficult, Chessmaster 8000 seems to have this one's number,
>>AND it reports the correct move at ply 9, despite other postings here that have
>>stated that it should take somewhere between 12 and 14 plies to find the result.
>
>You are right and it is also clear from the main line that it can see the queen
>on the board and does not solve it for wrong positional reasons that vincent
>suggests.
>
>Uri


I would disagree with Vincent's reasoning.  Crafty solves it for the _right_
positional reasons before it sees the tactical win.  It notes that the king
can't stop the pawns, and it _knows_ that a rook can't stop them.  Hence this
is the _right_ reason here...  even without seeing deep enough to see the
actual promotion.  It only takes crafty a few seconds to see the actual
promotion so it is really moot...  but to say that at 8 plies it solves it for
the wrong reasons is a stretch at least.  ie if you have a rook, I have two
connected passers on the 7th, and your king is too far away to help, I am going
to get a queen and there is nothing you can do about it.  Whether my eval
recognizes that, or I have to wait for the search to recognize it doesn't
matter.  the pawns are going to win...



This page took 0.01 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.