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Subject: Re: Ways to beat some computers

Author: David Rasmussen

Date: 10:03:47 01/21/01

Go up one level in this thread


On January 21, 2001 at 10:44:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 21, 2001 at 06:27:57, David Rasmussen wrote:
>
>>On January 20, 2001 at 20:28:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 20, 2001 at 18:30:45, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 20, 2001 at 10:34:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 20, 2001 at 02:38:57, Mark Longridge wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Some of the programs, crafty and gandalf come to mind, let their clocks run down
>>>>>>pretty low (say as low as 30 seconds) near where the game would normally be
>>>>>>close to over. But if the other player is just shuffling wood back and forth and
>>>>>>is playing with an inc, that player can build up a huge time advantage. Crafty
>>>>>>tries too hard to avoid the 50 move rule, and all of a sudden it's got 25
>>>>>>seconds left and a lost position.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I bet a lot of GM's and some programs do this on purpose. I don't see why crafty
>>>>>>shouldn't go for the 50 move rule instead of a silly pawn push, especially when
>>>>>>it's time is so low. Now the silly draws are becoming silly losses.
>>>>>
>>>>>If I saw this happen I might be concerned.  However, crafty does _not_ let the
>>>>>human get way ahead on time.  It has specific code to prevent this by speeding
>>>>>up itself.  And it _never_ loses on time, ever...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've seen you claim this before, but still, it has lost several times on time to
>>>>my program, playing 8 moves a second on the same machine through winboard.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then there is a big problem on your machine.  To stress-test crafty, I play
>>>games with the time control 999 moves in 1 minute.  The games go to 100-200
>>>moves with _no_ time problem at all.
>>>
>>>I notice you said one machine.  That's not a reasonable test.  Make one
>>
>>I know, that could be the problem.
>>
>>>program's hash too big and that ends it...  paging a program in and out
>>>is not going to work...
>>>
>>
>>Well, that's certainly not the problem because
>>
>>1. Both programs have little hashtable and overall memory consumption, about 10
>>MB in all, and there is 192 MB of RAM
>>
>>2. There is no disk activity at all
>>
>>3. This is not Windows98 we're talking about. I've tried it on NT, Win 2000,
>>Solaris, and Linux, all with the same result. Maybe winboard is the problem.
>
>
>No.  If you are seeing it lose 2 8 games on linux, you _definitely_ have
>something broken.  I haven't seen Crafty lose a game on time in years,
>unless I accidentally break something while testing.  In a 1 0 game it
>can _easily_ play over 1000 moves with no problem.  I have seen it play
>250+ move 2 0 and 3 0 games on ICC.

2 8 ? I said 8 moves a second, that is

level 8 0:01 0

in winboard lingo.

I don't believe that I have anything broken as I've tried this on at least 10
vastly different machines running different versions linux.



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