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Subject: Re: If you want solve one mate...

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 23:45:23 01/21/01

Go up one level in this thread


On January 22, 2001 at 01:48:47, Pete Galati wrote:

>On January 22, 2001 at 01:14:32, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 21, 2001 at 19:39:16, Pete Galati wrote:
>>
>>>On January 21, 2001 at 19:26:43, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 21, 2001 at 19:24:32, Pete Galati wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 21, 2001 at 19:17:18, Paul wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 21, 2001 at 19:14:08, John Coffey wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On January 21, 2001 at 16:56:42, Paul wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On January 21, 2001 at 11:56:09, leonid wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hi!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This mate position is very handy when you want to check the limits in your
>>>>>>>>>program. It is amusing also. Number of legal moves for both sides is slightly
>>>>>>>>>over one hundred.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> knq3q1/rq1q1qbQ/Qq2Q3/1Qn1Q2B/Q1qN1Q1r/4K1B1/1q4QR/1N1q3Q white to go.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If you will solve, it will be nice if you will indicate your result.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>Leonid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi again Leonid!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It took my program 45 minutes ... phewwwwwww!
>>>>>>>>Here's the line, a mate in 12:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>1. Qxa7+ Qxa7 2. Qxa7+ Kxa7 3. Qeb6+ Ka8 4. Qgxb7+ Qdxb7 5. Qxb8+ Qxb8
>>>>>>>>6. Qxb8+ Qxb8 7. Q6a5+ Na6 8. Qaxa6+ Qa7 9. Qg8+ Bf8 10. Qxf8+ Qe8+
>>>>>>>>11. Qfxe8+ Qc8 12. Qxc8x
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think I'm going to skip your next problem, that will be too difficult
>>>>>>>>for me ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Greetings,
>>>>>>>>Paul
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Fritz 6 has been thinking for 3 hours and 45 minutes, shows no analysis and
>>>>>>>still says 1/1 ply.  I wonder what is happening with the transposition table,
>>>>>>>:-).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>John Coffey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>:)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's the QSearch blowing up, you have to control that somehow ...
>>>>>>and that's easier when you're the author of the program in question :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>I'd try rebooting and try again.  Something sounds broken with searching on a
>>>>>position for 3 hours and being at 1/1 ply.  That's just not right (Louie
>>>>>Anderson impression).
>>>>>
>>>>>Pete
>>>>
>>>>Well, I *was* waiting for your solutions from Comet & Junior ...
>>>>or have you been rebooting al this time ;)
>>>>
>>>>Paul
>>>
>>>Oops, I must be becoming known for what I run analysis through, but I figure
>>>everyone else will use Fritz and Crafty etc., so why should I?
>>
>>It is not truth.
>>
>>I used Junior to find the mate in 12 line and not Fritz and Crafty.
>
>It was a generalization.  Fritz and Crafty seem to be the most common.
>
>>
>>Fritz and Crafty are not good programs to use in complicated positions when both
>>sides have 9 queens.
>
>I'll try to remember that next time I see 9 queens.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Actually, I've been running Junior on that other position that you pasted in
>>>that you said you gotta go deep to get an answer on, and Junior doesn't seem to
>>>be coming up with anything (that I know of)'
>>
>>>
>>>New position
>>>5n2/B3K3/2p2Np1/4k3/7P/3bN1P1/2Prn1P1/1q6 w - - 0 1
>>
>>You seem to use always the wrong program.
>
>I tend to use what ammuses me the most at the moment.  Not the best way to do
>it.
>
>>Junior is the wrong program to solve mate in 30 when Rebel solves it with no
>>problems.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I agree.  I gave up.  Actually, I didn't know that Rebel solved it in mate in 30
>moves when I started.  He said it was deep, so I figured that Junior searched
>about as fast as anything I had, but I only have so much time.

Junior searches a lot of nodes but the question is if the program extends long
forced lines.

Rebel extend long forced lines and can solve the mate in 30 in 1 second.
Junior does not do it so it cannot solve it even if you give it 24 hours

Junior needs big depth (at least depth 29 or 30 to see a mate in 30).


Junior does not analyze lines with more than 2x+1 plies at depth x so it cannot
see mate in 30 at smaller depthes unless it is tablebases mate and the mate in
the diagram is not a tablebase mate.

Uri



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