Author: Chuck
Date: 19:15:26 01/31/01
Go up one level in this thread
On January 31, 2001 at 14:03:09, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On January 31, 2001 at 13:47:43, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On January 31, 2001 at 11:04:05, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >> >>>On January 31, 2001 at 09:29:49, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On January 31, 2001 at 08:35:34, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 31, 2001 at 01:00:18, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>http://www.computerschach.de/tourn/cad2001/cad2001.htm >>>>>> >>>>>>In Gadeques tournament Deep Fritz - Shredder 5 ended 10-10. But 14 games were >>>>>>won by white! And I thought, that whites advantage is minimal in computer chess. >>>>>>Have programs killer books or what? >>>>> >>>>>As far as Shredder 5.0 is concerned there are no killer variations. The book is >>>>>made mainly for the human players and with a lot of alternatives to make it play >>>>>different lines. There are very few very long variations. Of course there are >>>>>good move against weak ones, but not deep variations. >>>>>So, it is a sort of compromise to make the program fun to play with. >>>>>Since we drew 6 games and lost 7, there is still a a lot of room for >>>>>improvements... >>>>> >>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>> >>>>>>Jouni >>>> >>>>I'm saving this message to quote later in my life. >>> >>>You can dump it. In my games, Shredder 5 didn't play one single killer line. >>> >>>Enrique >> >> >>What is your definition of a killer line? > >A line that doesn't exist in opening theory and gives decisive advantage to the >program that plays it. > >>A definition of mine could be: "knowing in advance that you make a full >>point with it against a certain program X1 which is having book X2". >> >>I remember 60 moves killer lines in mchess > >I don't know how many, but Mchess was full of them. Evals of +2 or more >immediately after book were not so rare. Sometimes Mchess left book with a mate >evaluation. :) I don't particularly see anything wrong with "booking" against certain opponents, we do it in human games, too. But didn't Sandro Necchi also do some of the books for MChess? I find that an odd coincedence worth noting, and a little humorous, too. Still, I feel only the losing program is to blame - with a wide book and some learning to adjust it, this shouldn't be a serious problem. How many killer lines can you cook against one program anyway? I have noticed that Tiger, who is reportedly suffering from this on ICC, seems to often be in book several moves after comp opponents, too. > >In my games, the new books of Deep Fritz, Nimzo 8 and Gandalf are too recent to >be cooked, but the books of Junior 6 and Gambit are old enough, and still I >didn't see any killer lines played by Shredder 5. As far as I can tell, we are >not facing a new "Mchess case". You can download the games and take a look at >the lines. > >Enrique
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