Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 03:23:02 02/01/01
Go up one level in this thread
On January 31, 2001 at 22:15:26, Chuck wrote: >On January 31, 2001 at 14:03:09, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: > >>On January 31, 2001 at 13:47:43, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On January 31, 2001 at 11:04:05, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>> >>>>On January 31, 2001 at 09:29:49, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 31, 2001 at 08:35:34, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 31, 2001 at 01:00:18, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>http://www.computerschach.de/tourn/cad2001/cad2001.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In Gadeques tournament Deep Fritz - Shredder 5 ended 10-10. But 14 games were >>>>>>>won by white! And I thought, that whites advantage is minimal in computer chess. >>>>>>>Have programs killer books or what? >>>>>> >>>>>>As far as Shredder 5.0 is concerned there are no killer variations. The book is >>>>>>made mainly for the human players and with a lot of alternatives to make it play >>>>>>different lines. There are very few very long variations. Of course there are >>>>>>good move against weak ones, but not deep variations. >>>>>>So, it is a sort of compromise to make the program fun to play with. >>>>>>Since we drew 6 games and lost 7, there is still a a lot of room for >>>>>>improvements... >>>>>> >>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Jouni >>>>> >>>>>I'm saving this message to quote later in my life. >>>> >>>>You can dump it. In my games, Shredder 5 didn't play one single killer line. >>>> >>>>Enrique >>> >>> >>>What is your definition of a killer line? >> >>A line that doesn't exist in opening theory and gives decisive advantage to the >>program that plays it. >> >>>A definition of mine could be: "knowing in advance that you make a full >>>point with it against a certain program X1 which is having book X2". >>> >>>I remember 60 moves killer lines in mchess >> >>I don't know how many, but Mchess was full of them. Evals of +2 or more >>immediately after book were not so rare. Sometimes Mchess left book with a mate >>evaluation. :) > >I don't particularly see anything wrong with "booking" against certain >opponents, we do it in human games, too. But didn't Sandro Necchi also do some >of the books for MChess? I find that an odd coincedence worth noting, and a >little humorous, too. Still, I feel only the losing program is to blame - with a >wide book and some learning to adjust it, this shouldn't be a serious problem. Yes, I agree. This thing about killer lines became anecdotic. Wide books and learners take such good care of them that I guess the effort of finding cooks is not worth it anymore. Enrique >How many killer lines can you cook against one program anyway? I have noticed >that Tiger, who is reportedly suffering from this on ICC, seems to often be in >book several moves after comp opponents, too. > >> >>In my games, the new books of Deep Fritz, Nimzo 8 and Gandalf are too recent to >>be cooked, but the books of Junior 6 and Gambit are old enough, and still I >>didn't see any killer lines played by Shredder 5. As far as I can tell, we are >>not facing a new "Mchess case". You can download the games and take a look at >>the lines. >> >>Enrique
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