Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 03:30:37 02/01/01
Go up one level in this thread
On February 01, 2001 at 06:23:02, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On January 31, 2001 at 22:15:26, Chuck wrote: > >>On January 31, 2001 at 14:03:09, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >> >>>On January 31, 2001 at 13:47:43, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On January 31, 2001 at 11:04:05, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 31, 2001 at 09:29:49, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 31, 2001 at 08:35:34, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 31, 2001 at 01:00:18, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://www.computerschach.de/tourn/cad2001/cad2001.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In Gadeques tournament Deep Fritz - Shredder 5 ended 10-10. But 14 games were >>>>>>>>won by white! And I thought, that whites advantage is minimal in computer chess. >>>>>>>>Have programs killer books or what? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>As far as Shredder 5.0 is concerned there are no killer variations. The book is >>>>>>>made mainly for the human players and with a lot of alternatives to make it play >>>>>>>different lines. There are very few very long variations. Of course there are >>>>>>>good move against weak ones, but not deep variations. >>>>>>>So, it is a sort of compromise to make the program fun to play with. >>>>>>>Since we drew 6 games and lost 7, there is still a a lot of room for >>>>>>>improvements... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Jouni >>>>>> >>>>>>I'm saving this message to quote later in my life. >>>>> >>>>>You can dump it. In my games, Shredder 5 didn't play one single killer line. >>>>> >>>>>Enrique >>>> >>>> >>>>What is your definition of a killer line? >>> >>>A line that doesn't exist in opening theory and gives decisive advantage to the >>>program that plays it. >>> >>>>A definition of mine could be: "knowing in advance that you make a full >>>>point with it against a certain program X1 which is having book X2". >>>> >>>>I remember 60 moves killer lines in mchess >>> >>>I don't know how many, but Mchess was full of them. Evals of +2 or more >>>immediately after book were not so rare. Sometimes Mchess left book with a mate >>>evaluation. :) >> >>I don't particularly see anything wrong with "booking" against certain >>opponents, we do it in human games, too. But didn't Sandro Necchi also do some >>of the books for MChess? I find that an odd coincedence worth noting, and a >>little humorous, too. Still, I feel only the losing program is to blame - with a >>wide book and some learning to adjust it, this shouldn't be a serious problem. > >Yes, I agree. This thing about killer lines became anecdotic. Wide books and >learners take such good care of them that I guess the effort of finding cooks is >not worth it anymore. I mean it's not worth it in long matches and commercial books. Swiss tournaments like WCCC and the special books used in them are another matter. Enrique >Enrique > >>How many killer lines can you cook against one program anyway? I have noticed >>that Tiger, who is reportedly suffering from this on ICC, seems to often be in >>book several moves after comp opponents, too. >> >>> >>>In my games, the new books of Deep Fritz, Nimzo 8 and Gandalf are too recent to >>>be cooked, but the books of Junior 6 and Gambit are old enough, and still I >>>didn't see any killer lines played by Shredder 5. As far as I can tell, we are >>>not facing a new "Mchess case". You can download the games and take a look at >>>the lines. >>> >>>Enrique
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.