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Subject: Re: Mystery solved by Gambit Tiger

Author: Enrique Irazoqui

Date: 02:55:48 02/03/01

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On February 02, 2001 at 19:52:28, Tony Werten wrote:

>On February 02, 2001 at 19:24:40, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>
>>On February 02, 2001 at 19:08:38, Tony Werten wrote:
>>
>>>On February 02, 2001 at 12:10:58, James T. Walker wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 02, 2001 at 03:19:14, Timothy J. Frohlick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 02, 2001 at 01:28:59, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]8/6kn/3B3p/5K1B/8/8/8/8 b - -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>resign 1-0! Why? Is this really white's win?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>JouniDate: 1/2/2001
>>>>>
>>>>>Jouni,
>>>>>
>>>>>Gambit Tiger without tablebases solves this as a mate in 46 in 26 minutes on a
>>>>>PII 333 with 48 Megs Hash.
>>>>>
>>>>>1... Ng5 2. Bc5 Nf7 3. Bd4+ Kf8 4. Kf6 Ng5 5. Bc5+ Kg8 6. Kf5 Nf7 7. Be7 Ng5 8.
>>>>>Bb4 Nf7 9. Kg6 Ne5+ 10. Kf6 Nd7+ 11. Ke7 Ne5 12. Bc3 Nc6+ 13. Ke8 Kh7 14. Kf7
>>>>>Ne5+ 15. Kf6 Nc6 16. Bf3 Nd8 17. Bb4 h5 18. Be4+ Kh8 19. Be7 Nc6 20. Bxc6 Kh7
>>>>>21. Be4+ Kg8 22. Kg6 Kh8 23. Bd5 h4 24. Bf6#
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>1-0
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe tablebases are not all that great after all.  They don't always find the
>>>>>shortest solution to a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tim Frohlick
>>>>
>>>>Why mate in 46 and then you give a mate in 24 line?  I believe the "mate in 46"
>>>>is true as Shredder 5 finds a mate in 47 (maybe a difference in terms) but where
>>>>did the above line which is 24 moves come from?
>>>
>>>Normally a move consists of 2 ply, but in this case the first and the last move
>>>are only 1 ply. So effectively 23 moves => 46 ply.
>>>
>>>47 ply is impossible since black starts and white finishes so it has to be even.
>>
>>Not really. In the line posted above, after 24.Bf6# the program must see 1 more
>>ply to realize that the black KIng has no escape, so it's a 47 ply search.
>
>Maybe it's 48 ply because white has to realize that black couldn't play so it
>won :)
>
>Even if your program needs a 100 ply search to realize it was mated, it's stil a
>mate in 46 ply.
>
>>A typical problem "white to play and mate in 6" is 12 ply deep, not 11.
>
>Yes it is ( and besides this is a "black to play and white mates problem" )
>
>By your definition, white play and mate in 1 is a 2 ply mate.

A mate in one takes a 2 ply search. The first ply finds the checks, but you need
the second to know if a check is a mate.

Enrique

>Tony
>
>>
>>Enrique
>>
>>>Tony
>>>
>>>>Jim



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