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Subject: Re: If you like to solve a mate...

Author: Paul

Date: 13:02:10 02/03/01

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On February 03, 2001 at 12:58:22, leonid wrote:

>I am not sure if I can respond correctly to your question. For now I have some
>almost fixed four versions of selective search. Usually I use only default 4
>levels. One of them find in 11 moves and quickly. But when I go to 10 moves my
>program can find the mate only with last and longest selective search.

My program is the other way around I think. Simply put, it starts searching with
a depth of 1 ply, then 2, then 3, etc. So the longer it searches, the deeper it
gets. You can find a lot of pages on the web describing this kind of search,
it's called iterative alpha-beta search. I put in a number of tricks to speed up
this search even more, a lot of them you can also find on the web.

And besides that I can change all kinds of parameters before starting the search
to tell it what lines to extend, and what lines to shorten. For example: look a
bit deeper into lines with checks in it, or with only one/two/three possible
replies. There are all kinds of possibilities, but I won't tell them here,
because Dann might be listening ;) Shhhhhh ...

>For hash I can say nothing. I still never installed it. I wait for my next
>computer to do this and probably I became too lazy as well. What I can say you
>for sure is that very often search by "lighter" selective search in bigger
>number of moves give better (shorter) time. In few occasions it is not so.

Hash should help you enormously, at least it did me when I programmed it in.
Especially in the endgame, with only a few pieces left on the board, Pretz now
gets very deep! But I remember that you like boards full of pieces, so maybe it
won't help you :) No, just kidding of course ... hash tables are great!!

>What kind of different  search you have for mate? Only if this is not the state
>secret.

Well, as I said above, I don't really have a different search for mate. It's
part of the general program, but what I do before trying to solve a mate, is try
to choose the right program settings for that particular mate. That's not always
easy! And some mates (in 16/20/46) of the last weeks, I cannot solve, they
simply would take too long, so I'm experimenting at the moment with a few other
things.

>In mine (I went through huge number of possible selective search
>versions) and left for now in program (part that search for mate) very simple
>variation of selective search. All difference between all those version is that
>they make complet search for different number of plys before going into real
>selective search. Before I had, for instance, one version that was seeing if
>certain move affect enemy "vital lines" when making its search. Beyond selective search I have one brute force as well.

Ok ... I understand more of your program now, thanks. I think our programs are
pretty different!

>No reason to be ashamed. Mine could not see in other position when your found in
>few moves sooner. Difference between all possible variations of mate searchers
>is that one will be good in some situations when the next in others. What
>version of selective search is the most valuable could be found only through
>long statistics. Not at all by solving fantasy positions like mine. Similar
>positions are very good for fun but even more for cleaning all kind of bugs.
>After what you write, I can see that your is rock solid. Many programs (could be
>as far as 50%) can suffer from different allergy reaction and even prematurely
>die in similar situations.

Thanks for the nice words. But some of your selective searches are really fast!
I can't really challenge that with my general chess program. And I don't intend
to build a real mate solver/prover like you & Heiner have done, because I mostly
use it to replay and analyze chessgames between humans, and try to find the
combinations & mates they play (and miss :).

Greetings,
Paul



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