Author: Paul
Date: 08:32:55 02/05/01
Go up one level in this thread
On February 05, 2001 at 11:28:28, Hermano Ecuadoriano wrote: >On February 05, 2001 at 10:57:14, Hermano Ecuadoriano wrote: > >>On February 05, 2001 at 09:46:59, Paul wrote: >> >>>Hi! >>> >>>One last message from me on the subject, since I think I know now what made you >>>hesitant and wanted to share this to help clear out all the confusion forever. >>> >>>1. When a program finds a mate in *favor* of itself, so mating the opponent, >>>it's immediately an upper bound on the real matescore, so with more time the >>>announcement stays the same or gets lower (M78 ... M54 ... etc). >>> >>>2. When a program finds a mate *against* itself, so mating itself, and it stays >>>that way until the end of ply (when all the moves of that ply have been >>>examined), it's also an upper bound on the real matescore, so with more time the >>>announcement stays the same or gets lower (M78 ... M54 ... etc). >>> >>>Now, there are 2 interesting cases: >>> >>>1. Before the winning side finds a mate in favor of itself, it can even find a >>>mate against itself, but that will have disappeared by the end of the ply it >>>found this mate on. >>> >>>2. Before the losing side finds a mate against itself, it can have found lower >>>mates against itself, but again, those will have disappeared by the end of the >>>ply in question. >>> >>>Hope this helps a bit! >>> >>>Groetjes, >>>Paul >> >>I gave a clear counterexample. > >O.K. I understand the question raised about the crafty output I snipped. >To save my credibility, I had to figure out why that -> wasn't there. > >With noise= 1, to show everything, the .log shows > >snip >Black(1): go >end-game phase > clearing hash tables > time surplus 0.00 time limit 10:00 (10:00) > nss depth time score variation (1) > 1-> 0.01 0.00 Ng5 > 2 0.02 0.00 Ng5 Bb8 > 2-> 0.03 0.00 Ng5 Bb8 > 3 0.03 0.00 Ng5 Bb8 Kh7 > 3-> 0.06 0.00 Ng5 Bb8 Kh7 > 4 0.13 0.00 Ng5 Bb8 Kh7 Bc7 > 4-> 0.14 0.00 Ng5 Bb8 Kh7 Bc7 > 5 0.28 0.01 Ng5 Bf4 Nh3 Bxh6+ <HT> > 5 0.31 0.00 Kg8 Be5 Ng5 Be8 Nh3 > 5-> 0.31 0.00 Kg8 Be5 Ng5 Be8 Nh3 > 6 0.33 0.00 Kg8 Be5 Ng5 Be8 Nh3 Bd7 > 6-> 0.35 0.00 Kg8 Be5 Ng5 Be8 Nh3 Bd7 > 7 0.68 0.01 Kg8 Be5 Ng5 Bf4 Kg7 Bxg5 <HT> > 7-> 0.78 0.01 Kg8 Be5 Ng5 Bf4 Kg7 Bxg5 <HT> > 8 0.92 0.01 Kg8 Be5 Ng5 Bf4 Kg7 Bxg5 <HT> > 8-> 0.93 0.01 Kg8 Be5 Ng5 Bf4 Kg7 Bxg5 <HT> > 9 1.21 -- Kg8 > 9 1.54 Mat68 Kg8 Kg6 Ng5 Be2 Ne6 Kxh6 <HT> > 9 2.06 ++ Ng5!! > 9 2.31 0.01 Ng5 Be5+ Kh7 Bf4 Nh3 Bxh6 <HT> > 9-> 2.34 0.01 Ng5 Be5+ Kh7 Bf4 Nh3 Bxh6 <HT> > 10 3.34 0.01 Ng5 Be5+ Kh7 Bf4 Nh3 Bxh6 <HT> > 10-> 3.39 0.01 Ng5 Be5+ Kh7 Bf4 Nh3 Bxh6 <HT> >snip > >With noise= 100000, which I did only to simplify the example, the .log shows: > >snip >Black(1): go >end-game phase > time surplus 0.00 time limit 1000:00 (1000:00) > nss depth time score variation (1) > 9 0.70 Mat68 Kg8 Kg6 Ng5 Be2 Ne6 Kxh6 <HT> > 10 1.34 0.01 Ng5 Be5+ Kh7 Bf4 Nh3 Bxh6 <HT> > 10-> 1.35 0.01 Ng5 Be5+ Kh7 Bf4 Nh3 Bxh6 <HT> >snip > >I posted this in total innocence. >I don't know why the -> line isn't there. >I was trying to be helpful. I found what I thought was a counterexample, >and tried to explain it. >I mean it this time: I quit posting anything except my opinions. >Best wishes. Ok! No harm done ... I hope everything's clear now :) Groetjes, Paul
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