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Subject: Re: If you like to solve a mate...

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 03:19:35 02/07/01

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On February 06, 2001 at 17:19:28, Heiner Marxen wrote:

>On February 06, 2001 at 16:55:44, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On February 06, 2001 at 12:02:30, Heiner Marxen wrote:
>>
>>>On February 06, 2001 at 10:17:01, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 06, 2001 at 08:59:10, Heiner Marxen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have not yet tried with side to move switched ;-)
>>>>
>>>>I have :) ... I also get a mate in 7, is much more difficult tho :)
>>>>
>>>>Bxe4 B5xe4 Rb1+ Bxb1 Rd8 Bxc7+ Bxc7 Bxa7+ Kxa7 Ra5+ Ba6 Rgxa6+ Kb8 Bxc7#
>>>
>>>I like Rb6# more  :-)
>>>
>>>Well, didn't that mate the wrong side?
>>>
>>>With side to move switched to white Chest does not find a mate in 11,
>>>in only 80 seconds (K6-3/400 30MB hash).  Therefore I suspect, this time
>>>switching side to move is not much fun ;-)
>>>(except in the way you handle it :-)
>>
>>chess playing programs may be faster than chest in this case.
>
>Sure, that happens all the time.
>
>>They can prove that there is no mate.
>>
>>Evaluation of mate against white at the end of the iteration is a proof that
>>white has no mate.
>>
>>Proving that white has no mate in 11 is not a proof that white has no mate.
>
>Sure!  I took it just as a hint, not as a proof.  Sorry for not being clear.
>
>Chest has a bit support to find a mate against the side to move, by just
>trying to solve a series of mates 1 ply deeper (option -x):
>I just tried it with depth=6:
>
>After Rh8 - h1  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Rb3 - b1  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Bc8 - b7  ...
>        Solution (in 2 moves):
>        Be5 : c7
>After Bc8 - a6  ...
>        Solution (in 3 moves):
>        Be3 : a7
>After Bc8 - d7  ...
>        Solution (in 3 moves):
>        Be3 : a7
>After Bc8 - e6  ...
>        Solution (in 6 moves):
>        Bf5 : e6
>        Be5 : h8
>After Bc8 : f5  ...
>        Solution (in 5 moves):
>        Rg6 - g8
>After Ba8 - b7  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Ba8 - c6  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Ba8 - d5  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Ba8 : e4  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Ba5 - b6  ...
>        Solution (in 6 moves):
>        Rg6 : b6
>After Ba5 - b4  ...
>        Solution (in 2 moves):
>        Be5 : c7
>After Ba5 - c3  ...
>        Solution (in 2 moves):
>        Be5 : c7
>After Ba5 : d2  ...
>        Solution (in 2 moves):
>        Be5 : c7
>After Rh8 - g8  ...
>        Solution (in 4 moves):
>        Rg6 : g8
>After Rh8 - f8  ...
>        Solution (in 6 moves):
>        Bd2 : a5
>After Rh8 - e8  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Rh8 - d8  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Rh8 - h7  ...
>        Solution (in 5 moves):
>        Rg6 - g8
>After Rh8 - h6  ...
>        Solution (in 5 moves):
>        Rg6 - g8
>After Rh8 - h5  ...
>        Solution (in 5 moves):
>        Rg6 - g8
>After Rh8 - h4  ...
>        Solution (in 5 moves):
>        Rg6 - g8
>After Rh8 - h3  ...
>        Solution (in 5 moves):
>        Rg6 - g8
>After Rh8 - h2  ...
>        Solution (in 5 moves):
>        Rg6 - g8
>After Rb3 - c3  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Rb3 : d3  ...
>        Solution (in 6 moves):
>        Be5 : c7
>After Rb3 - a3  ...
>        Solution (in 4 moves):
>        Be3 : a7
>After Rb3 - b4  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Rb3 - b5  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Rb3 - b6  ...
>        Solution (in 3 moves):
>        Be5 : c7
>After Rb3 - b7  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Rb3 - b2  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Ra7 - b7  ...
>        No solution in 6 moves.
>After Ra7 - a6  ...
>        Solution (in 2 moves):
>        Be5 : c7
>Time (virt) = 236.180 sec (ca. 3.9 min)
>
>Still no proof of anything, but you can try to find a proof with Chest.
>With more depth and time it might find a mate after all legal moves.
>
>Also, when processing an EPD batch, Chest first tries to find a direct mate,
>and if not found, it tries to prove the side to move is lost, in the way
>indicated above.

It is better to use a mate finder and not a mate prover for the second side if
the target is to be faster in proving mates.

Uri



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