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Subject: Re: How many programs can see the draw in the 2nd game of DB vs Kasparov?

Author: Enrique Irazoqui

Date: 06:57:06 02/28/01

Go up one level in this thread


On February 28, 2001 at 07:21:44, Jeremiah Penery wrote:

>On February 27, 2001 at 13:35:33, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>
>>On February 27, 2001 at 10:49:29, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On February 27, 2001 at 10:07:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 27, 2001 at 08:24:14, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I believe that the drawish move was Qe3! instead of the Qxc6?  Can somebody
>>>>>post the FEN string that produce the graphical position for me. Plus I wonder
>>>>>what program save the draw in the shortest time possible?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>None can see this.  It is a 60+ ply repetition.  Way beyond anything we can
>>>>see today.
>>>
>>>We need to test all the programs in order to say that none can see it.
>>>
>>>Some programs like dark thought are not available so we cannot know that none
>>>can see it.
>>>
>>>The fact that it is 60 ply repetition is not a proof that none can see it
>>>because programs only to need the right extensions to see the relevant 60 plies
>>>forward.
>>>
>>>If you are wrong then testing only one program is enough to prove it.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>Deep Fritz doesn't see the draw yet after one hour, but it's getting there. Now
>>I am trying with Deep Shredder and I might leave one of them computing the
>>position overnight.
>>
>>What has been the evaluation that came closest to 0.00?
>>
>>Enrique
>>
>>Comp Deep Blue - Kasparov,G
>>1r6/5kp1/RqQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 b - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by DEEP FRITZ   :
>>
><SNIP>
>>45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 h5 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Be2 Qf4+ 51.Kg1
>>  ±  (1.00)   Depth: 19/50   00:25:38  1907813kN
>>45...Qe3!
>>  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 20/52   00:56:36  4195172kN
>>
>>(Irazoqui, Cadaqués 27.02.2001)
>
>I have let various versions of Crafty search this position for very long periods
>of time in the past.  I've had it return what looks like a draw score at around
>ply 21 or so, and then at the next ply the score will go back up and the line
>will change a lot!  I never could figure out why this was.
>
>BTW, there is a good line posted at the bottom of http://www.rebel.nl/db2.htm
>for this position.  It looks like Fritz is following it fairly well so far, but
>Crafty also looked to be following it when it found the drawscore, then it
>changed its mind away from the line, and again the score started to rise. :(

Same thing with Deep Fritz. What I find surprising is that Deep Blue expected
46... Qxc6, when Deep Fritz, Deep Shredder beta and Junior 7 beta, for instance,
pick Qe3 very quickly.

Enrique


Comp Deep Blue - Kasparov,G
1r6/5kp1/RqQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 b - - 0 1

Analysis by DEEP FRITZ   :

45...Qxc6
  ±  (0.91)   Depth: 1/6   00:00:00
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Be7 47.Bd5+ Ke8 48.c7 Rc8 49.Ra7
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  10kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Be7 47.Bd5+ Ke8 48.c7 Rc8 49.Ra7
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  10kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Be7 47.Bd5+ Ke8 48.c7 Rc8 49.Ra7
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  10kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Be7 47.Bd5+ Ke8 48.c7 Rc8 49.Ra7
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  10kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Be7 47.Bd5+ Ke8 48.c7 Rc8 49.Ra7
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  10kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Be7 47.Bd5+ Ke8 48.c7 Rc8 49.Ra7
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  10kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Bc7 47.Ra7 Rc8 48.Rb7 Ke7 49.Rxb5
  ±  (1.37)   Depth: 7/16   00:00:00  31kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Bc7 47.Ra7 Rc8 48.Rb7 Ke7 49.Ke2 Kd6 50.Rxb5
  +-  (1.44)   Depth: 8/17   00:00:00  65kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Bc7 47.Ra7 Rc8 48.Rb7 Ke7 49.Ke2 Kd6 50.Rxb5
  +-  (1.44)   Depth: 9/19   00:00:00  115kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Kf8 47.Ra7 Rc8 48.Rb7 Ra8 49.Rxb5 Ra3 50.Rd5 Ke7
  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 10/22   00:00:00  305kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Kf8 47.Ra7 Rc8 48.Rb7 Rc7 49.Rxb5 Ke7
  +-  (1.56)   Depth: 11/21   00:00:00  1078kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Kf8 47.Ra7 Rc8 48.Rb7 Rc7 49.Rxb5 Ke7
  +-  (1.56)   Depth: 12/22   00:00:01  1597kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Rc8 47.Ra5 Ke7 48.Rxb5 h5 49.Bd5 Rb8 50.Rxb8 Bxb8
  +-  (1.78)   Depth: 13/26   00:00:02  3199kN
45...Qxc6 46.dxc6 Rc8 47.Ra5 h5 48.Rxb5 h4 49.Rb7+ Rc7 50.Bd5+ Ke7 51.Bxc4
  +-  (1.84)   Depth: 14/26   00:00:06  6898kN
45...Qe3!
  +-  (1.81)   Depth: 14/39   00:00:21  25200kN
45...Qe3! 46.Qd7+ Kg8 47.Qxd6 Rf8 48.Qe6+ Kh7 49.Qe7 Rg8 50.Bf3 Qc1+ 51.Kf2
  ±  (1.22)   Depth: 14/39   00:00:29  34959kN
45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 Re7 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Kg3 Qe1+ 51.Kh3
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 15/39   00:00:58  71272kN
45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 h5 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Be2 Qf4+ 51.Kg1
  ±  (1.28)   Depth: 16/43   00:01:48  133552kN
45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 h5 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Be2 Qf4+ 51.Bf3
  ±  (1.28)   Depth: 17/45   00:04:03  301257kN
45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 h5 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Be2 Qf4+ 51.Bf3
  ±  (1.28)   Depth: 18/46   00:09:44  723368kN
45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 h5 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Be2 Qf4+ 51.Kg1
  ±  (1.06)   Depth: 19/50   00:22:41  1678502kN
45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 h5 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Be2 Qf4+ 51.Kg1
  ±  (1.00)   Depth: 20/49   01:04:45  4818191kN
45...Qe3!
  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 21/54   02:32:36  11295715kN
45...Qe3! 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 h5 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Be2 Qf4+ 51.Kg1
  ²  (0.31)   Depth: 21/54   04:29:02  19961605kN
45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.Qd7+ Re7 48.Qc6 Qxe4 49.d6 Qxf5+ 50.Kg1 Rd7 51.Qxb5
  ²  (0.31)   Depth: 22/57   09:15:31  41587594kN
45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.Qd7+ Re7 48.Qc6 Qxe4 49.d6 Qxf5+ 50.Kg1 Rd7 51.Qxb5
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 23/56   17:29:25  78776519kN, tb=3

(Irazoqui, Cadaqués 28.02.2001)



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