Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 07:24:22 02/28/01
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On February 27, 2001 at 10:49:29, Uri Blass wrote: >On February 27, 2001 at 10:07:31, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On February 27, 2001 at 08:24:14, Jorge Pichard wrote: >> >>>I believe that the drawish move was Qe3! instead of the Qxc6? Can somebody >>>post the FEN string that produce the graphical position for me. Plus I wonder >>>what program save the draw in the shortest time possible? >> >> >>None can see this. It is a 60+ ply repetition. Way beyond anything we can >>see today. > >We need to test all the programs in order to say that none can see it. > >Some programs like dark thought are not available so we cannot know that none >can see it. > >The fact that it is 60 ply repetition is not a proof that none can see it >because programs only to need the right extensions to see the relevant 60 plies >forward. > >If you are wrong then testing only one program is enough to prove it. > >Uri Here I disagree. I fully understand what chess programs are doing in the tree, and I have a good grasp of the exponential search issue. While what you say is _possible_, it may also be possible to exceed the speed of light in space travel one day. But _not_ with today's technology. Same for the search issue. To reach 60+ plies in that position would require some impossibly accurate extensions... because if they are triggered in the _wrong_ positions, the tree will explode to an impossible-to-search size. If a chess program could search this position with an effective branching factor of 2, it would still have to overcome the issue of 2^60 to get deep enough to find that draw. It would be more likely to recognize potential perps by static analysis, because the actual tree here is simply _impossibly_ big. Humans don't solve it by searching until they _see_ the repetition... they solve it by searching until they reach a position where they recognize that a repetition is unavoidable. Programs don't yet work like that. I am not sure they will for a _long_ time.
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