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Subject: Re: Testposition - Good vs Bad Bishop

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 06:48:42 03/01/01

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On February 28, 2001 at 17:35:48, Sune Larsson wrote:

>On February 28, 2001 at 16:47:27, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>
>>On February 28, 2001 at 16:23:35, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  [D]8/5b2/p2k4/1p1p1p1p/1P1K1P1P/2P1PB2/8/8 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>
>>>  This is one of Averbakh's positions from 1954.
>>>  It's a typical winning position in a good versus bad bishop ending.
>>>  The black pawns on h5, f5, d5 and a6 are vulnerable and curtail the
>>>  movements of the black bishop. To seal black's fate, all white need to do
>>>  is lose a move. That is - repeat the initial position with black to move.
>>>  This may be accomplished as follows:
>>>
>>>  1.Be2 Be8   [1.-Bg6 2.Bd3 Bh7 3.Bf1 leads to instant zugzwang, be it after
>>>               3.-Bg6 4.Bg2 Bf7 5.Bf3  or after 3.-Bg8 4.Be2 Bf7 5.Bf3]
>>>
>>>  2.Bd3 Bg6 3.Bc2 Bh7 4.Bb3! Bg8 5.Bd1 Bf7 6.Bf3! and so on
>>>
>>>
>>>  Test: The above position is won for white so your program should be able
>>>        to win it. The evals should differ distinctly between white and black.
>>>
>>>  Sune
>>
>>Hej!
>>
>>Nimzo8 sees it immediately with a score of more then +2.
>>It also sees 1.Bg2 as winning with about the same score.
>>
>>Bertil
>
> Okej, it's a bit hard to find a good balance, when choosing these positions.
> If they are too easy some people just complain - if they are too hard
> almost noone answers...;)
>
> Sune

The big problem is to find correct positions. Every position i always
get i have to double check things. Majority of all positions a few
tactical extensions find it already 100x faster.

Your rook position was very cool though. The bad bishop on g3 i had
already implemented quite some time ago :)

The problem here is that in a normal position a single bad placed pawn
can lose, nearly all programs realize that now.

however this position is more complicated from human viewpoint as the black
king is doing a great job, so you need more weaknesses and need a zugzwang
here.

How to tell my program that it only wins this position if it can create
a zugzwang?

So the basic fault here of the chessplayer is the assumption that it is a
bad bishop position. it's in fact a zugzwang position.
for a single zugzwang you need a few plies of search that's it.

Cool for my double nullmove to show its correctness, but no big deal
really :)






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