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Subject: Re: Positional test - Paralyzing the Knight

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:18:13 03/01/01

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On March 01, 2001 at 08:21:38, Sune Larsson wrote:

>On February 28, 2001 at 23:19:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 28, 2001 at 13:48:00, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>
>>>On February 28, 2001 at 13:00:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 28, 2001 at 11:12:09, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  [D]4n3/1b3k1p/p2p2p1/3Pp3/2P3P1/6PP/2BB4/6K1 w - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>  This is Hort-Ciocaltea, Budapest 1973. Only two moves are required
>>>>>  to immobilize the black knight and pave the way for the victorious
>>>>>  march of the white king to the deserted queenside:
>>>>>
>>>>>  1.g5! Bc8 2.g4! and black's position is ripe for resignation.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Test: The above move order should be rewarded with big +scores for white.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sune
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There may be more than one winning plan here.  Crafty thinks that Ba5 wins a
>>>>pawn, for example...  eval = +1.26 after 18 plies, almost 2 minutes:
>>>>
>>>>               17     1:01   0.99   1. Ba5 Ke7 2. Kf2 Bc8 3. Kf3 Bd7 4.
>>>>                                    Ke4 Kf6 5. Bb4 Nb6 6. Bd3 Nc8 7. c5
>>>>                                    dxc5 8. Bxc5 a5 9. d6
>>>>               17->   1:09   0.99   1. Ba5 Ke7 2. Kf2 Bc8 3. Kf3 Bd7 4.
>>>>                                    Ke4 Kf6 5. Bb4 Nb6 6. Bd3 Nc8 7. c5
>>>>                                    dxc5 8. Bxc5 a5 9. d6
>>>>               18     1:40   1.26   1. Ba5 Ke7 2. Kf2 Bc8 3. Kf3 Bd7 4.
>>>>                                    Ke4 Kf6 5. Bb3 h5 6. Bb4 hxg4 7. hxg4
>>>>                                    Ke7 8. c5 dxc5 9. Bxc5+ Kf6 10. g5+
>>>>                                    Kxg5 11. Kxe5
>>>>               18->   1:53   1.26   1. Ba5 Ke7 2. Kf2 Bc8 3. Kf3 Bd7 4.
>>>>                                    Ke4 Kf6 5. Bb3 h5 6. Bb4 hxg4 7. hxg4
>>>>                                    Ke7 8. c5 dxc5 9. Bxc5+ Kf6 10. g5+
>>>>                                    Kxg5 11. Kxe5
>>>
>>> Interesting line. Can Crafty win the above position after 11.-Kg4?
>>>
>>> Sune
>>
>>
>>Good question.  A brief note about chess programs.  When they produce a PV
>>as above, the first move is the one they play.  The second move is the one
>>they expect, but it is less accurate as it is the result of a search that is
>>one ply shallower than the search to choose the _first_ move.  By the time
>>you reach the end of the PV, it is _highly_ likely that those moves will never
>>be played in a real game.  The last move is based on a 1 ply search, for
>>example, and no one would consider that to be reasonable chess...
>>
>>
>>IE when a GM gives me a variation to look at, _every_ move generally is
>>a sound move.  When  a computer gives me a variation, the deeper the move
>>in the variation, the less likely it is to be the best move.
>
> Okey, from your statement I conclude that we cannot trust the Crafty line
> above. Furthermore it doesn't even come close to GM Hort's choice or
> the theme of immobilizing the black knight with 1.g5! and 2.g4!
>
> Sune


Here is a quote from a very good GM on ICC (Not Roman this time).

"I notice that when crafty is whispering analysis, the first move or two
are _always_ very strong.  But the further down in the PV you go, the less
sense the moves make at times.  why is this?"

It is based on the reasoning I gave...  I rarely fault the move the thing
produces, as the moves are good enough to give human GM players fits.  But I
am _certain_ that if Crafty had to play the entire PV in a game, it would
end up in much difficulty...  most of the time..



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