Author: Uri Blass
Date: 07:14:11 03/10/01
Go up one level in this thread
On March 10, 2001 at 09:38:13, Michael Fuhrmann wrote: >On March 10, 2001 at 01:58:59, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On March 10, 2001 at 01:38:25, Pete Galati wrote: >> >>>On March 10, 2001 at 00:26:57, Michael Fuhrmann wrote: >>> >>>>[D] 8/8/7P/5kP1/5P2/r7/5K2/8 b - - 0 114 >>>> >>>> >>>>Crafty scores this as -3.26 for white on my computer, yet it seems to be a draw. >>>>I don't have all the 5-piece tbs. Is that the problem? >>> >>>I don't know if that's a problem. I have some of the 5 piece tablebases, >>>whatever came with the Junior CD. >>> >>>It doesn't appear to be a draw to me, White looks like it's in a lot of trouble >>>and it's only hope is for Black to blunder. I somehow can't imagine White ever >>>promoting any of those pawn considering that the King can't get up there to help >>>them promote. To ME at least, all hope looks lost for White, but I could be >>>wrong. >> >>The scores of Crafty suggest that it is a draw. >>White cannot promote but black also cannot make progress. >>3.26 pawns for black at depth 9-13 and >>3.24 pawns for black at depth 14-17 suggest that black cannot make progress. >> >>The most important tablebases for this endgame is the KRKPP tablebases but >>seeing the draw is not an easy problem for computers because black can play a >>lot of moves when both sides do no progress and I doubt if they can see it even >>with the KRKPP tablebases. >> >>Uri > >Actually, when this position came up in a game between crafty (black) and little >goliath, little goliath's score was 0.0 while crafty kept showing -3 or >thereabouts for about 20 futile moves as it looked for a way to win. The fact >that lg was able to see the draw while crafty's score was so big is what struck >me. And LG was using no tablebases. I guess that lgoliath's value of pawn is too high and this is the reason that it could see the draw. I guess that reducing the value of pawn could help lgoliath to be a better program but it is not going to help the program to be better in test suites and I guess that the programmer used test suites to decided about the evaluation. Uri
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