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Subject: Re: Crafty score in this endgame

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:57:15 03/10/01

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On March 10, 2001 at 17:07:33, Uri Blass wrote:

>On March 10, 2001 at 16:16:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On March 10, 2001 at 10:41:18, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On March 10, 2001 at 10:05:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 10, 2001 at 03:34:19, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On March 10, 2001 at 02:55:29, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On March 10, 2001 at 00:26:57, Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[D] 8/8/7P/5kP1/5P2/r7/5K2/8 b - - 0 114
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Crafty scores this as -3.26 for white on my computer, yet it seems to be a draw.
>>>>>>>I don't have all the 5-piece tbs. Is that the problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have the complete 5 piece tablebase file set.  It does not seem to help much.
>>>>>>However, it is clear that it is a draw.  The output of the chase below is rather
>>>>>>amusing.  We might call it "I'll get that f4 pawn if it's the last thing I do!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Past the last actual search depth in plies, for each new search, it always ends
>>>>>>in Kxf4.  But each time we go one more ply (when we have actually examined the
>>>>>>consequences of that horizon capture) it gets pushed out.  It is clear that this
>>>>>>is a draw.
>>>>>
>>>>>It seems that the problem is that Crafty does not look at the tablebases in the
>>>>>last ply.
>>>>>Maybe probing the tablebases everywhere can help Crafty to get more realistic
>>>>>evaluation because it is not going to have wrong evaluation for KR vs KPP
>>>>>endgames and evaluation for KR vs KPPP endgames is going to be closer to draw.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It isn't quite the "last ply".  It is the first ply of the q-search, and I
>>>>don't probe there as it is too expensive.  Which means the goal of the search
>>>>becomes "push the capture off to the q-search where I won't realize it is a
>>>>draw."  I have seen this in rare positions before...  :)
>>>
>>>I understand the reason that you do it in the first ply of the q-search(in this
>>>case it was also the last ply).
>>>
>>>I do not know if changing it in part of the cases can be an improvement.
>>>
>>>Some possible ideas:
>>>
>>>1)If the main line leads to tablebases position and if the difference between
>>>the evaluation of this position with tablebases and without tablebases is big
>>>enough then probe everywhere in the next iteration.
>>>
>>>2)compare evaluations with tablebases and without tablebases for 1 out of 100
>>>positions when you probe the tablebases.
>>>If you get a big difference in significant part of the cases then probe the
>>>tablebases everywhere.
>>>
>>>3)Start the game with probing the tablebases also in the qsearch.
>>>
>>>If the number of tablebases hits in the last iteration is not big enough then
>>>continue probing the tablebases everywhere.
>>>
>>>Stop to probe the tablebases in the qsearch only when you get enough tablebases
>>>hits so you are afraid from a significant reduction in speed.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>You seem to have lots of good ideas/suggestions, all the time.  Now I wish I
>>could teach you C so that you can implement them. :)
>
>I learned C but I never wrote big programs in C of more than some hundreds
>lines.
>
>Uri


Break out the C book and get busy.

:)



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