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Subject: Re: SSDF and the programmers............

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 01:38:38 03/18/98

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>Posted by Detlef Pordzik on March 17, 1998 at 19:50:04:

>>So take my word for it that comp-comp learning is still in childhood
>>stage. So much to improve. And comp-comp learning is simply a cheat
>>as the goal is to get a higher elo on SSDF. It has nothing to do with
>>the strength of the chess engine.

>>Blame me for my part in it. With Rebel9 I joined the club. Now I
>>step out. It was a mistake. I will not support this silly cooking
>>race any longer. Back to the roots which is the chess engine.

>What I would like to ask - as you, of course, should be highly
>interested too,
>to clear the situation :

I fully agree with you. If things get honest again (engine versus
engine)
I will be happy to join the SSDF again. But let's face it, first we had
to deal with book cooks, then the learners came and now we have to deal
with an unknown autoplayer from a competitor?

This for me is just the limit. Till now everybody has made his
autoplayer public. Now we have a new fashion, a secret autoplayer.
Who is next? Why should I join this new fashion?


>do you see a chance, to get things back into balance, without SSDF
>finally loosing it's face - and what would you personally suggest, how
>this could work ?

As I said before:

- General accepted autoplayers also available for the public;
- Equal hash table sizes;
- Skip doubles;

Remains the problem of book cooking as Thorsten correctly has pointed
out. Well I can live with that.


>Because the whole thing is just like after having thrown a rock into the
>pool -
>waves, waves + waves....but no solution in sight
>- and personally I'd really like to see one -
>and if it only were for the benefit of all...:-))

You are so right.

I do not share Ossie Weiner's opinions in the way he has expressed
himself. I have no single evidence the chessbase autoplayer cheats.
Neither do I expect that from a respected company. But I should have
the chance to check that myself. It's called fair competition.

Sofar I noticed:

#1. The chessbase autoplayer doesn't save the opponents game. Maybe
opponents in that stage update their learner? Logical place no? And
now maybe this learner update is bypassed? For Rebel8/9 this could
be so true. I can't check. How can I judge?

#2. The chessbase autoplayer changes colors. white-black-white and
so on. This is not COMMON auto232. Looking at my source code this
doesn't seem to influence the learner of Rebel. But how can I know
for sure? And what about other chess programs? Did the Swedish ask
the programmers if this white-black-white behavior influence their
learners? One thing for sure, they didn't ask me. And from a
programmers view of point this white-black-white behavior can easily
disturb their learner.

Quite a mess...

- Ed -


>ELVIS



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