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Subject: Re: To the good Dr. Hyatt about my match CT vs. Crafty

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:10:28 03/13/01

Go up one level in this thread


On March 13, 2001 at 11:35:12, Roy Beam wrote:

>On March 13, 2001 at 09:39:14, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On March 13, 2001 at 00:03:19, ERIQ wrote:
>>
>>>first I would like to say that I do not understand how the match was not fair. I
>>>hear two main complaints:
>>>
>>>1) The book
>>>
>>>2) The learning being disabled
>>>
>>>my answer to 1) is that Yes the book did not favor crafty, but it did not favor
>>>CT either as it was CA. 5.1's book. is it good or bad, frankly I'm no expert on
>>>the subject but as both programs had to get both sides of the same or simular
>>>line, I fail to see how either program gets advantage ! It just proves that one
>>>of them could deal with a bad hand better than the other. In short they both had
>>>the same problem lines.
>>
>>This doesn't matter at all.  A chess program is a combination of the code,
>>the books, and anything else it uses (tablebases, etc) to play the game.  In
>>the case of your match, there was no variability.  If you think playing the
>>same games over and over proves anything, feel free to continue.  I don't take
>>such matches seriously, however, because I realize they are _badly_ flawed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I noticed also that crafty had good position right out of the opening in several
>>>of the games but as time went on and sometimes got short It loss. A human master
>>>(fide 2400) would have beaten CT in a few of those games or at worst drawn a
>>>few.
>>>
>>>My answer to 2) how much is the learning feature going to really help in only 10
>>>games anyway, sorry this just sound like a cop out too me. But anyway Crafty
>>>reached equal postions in almost all the games. It seemed to go astray more in
>>>the late middle game, and in the end game, even in what I thought was winning
>>>postions out of the opening.
>>
>>It will help a significant amount.  Otherwise I would never have written the
>>learning code.  Crafty doesn't like the Sicilian particularly, which is why
>>it only rarely plays it on ICC.  And as a result, it doesn't particularly
>>play it very well.  But after playing a number of such games over time, it
>>does learn that it does poorly in some of the variations and turns those off.
>>
>>If you want to play matches with a strange book, feel free. But you should
>>also play games with one pondering, the other not.  With two different machines
>>that are way different in speed, etc.  Because the overall result is just as
>>bad..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Don't get me wrong I do like Crafty I have it as an engine in CA and on the
>>>linux side of my box, but this is not the first match I've seen it take a
>>>beating from that tiger at 5:00 min game. It just looks like CT is a better
>>>blitzer. I've played other matches like 10:00 min game and up and Crafty has won
>>>or been even, but at blitz it alway seems to come up short against CT.
>>
>>Tiger may well be a better blitzer.  Or it might be a better blitzer in
>>that one opening.  Without book learning, you get the same games.  That
>>seems to be pointless.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I think this time Crafty just took a solid beating in ten games nothing more
>>>nothing less. But my point in displaying it was just to show that even the old
>>>tiger is still very very dangerous.
>>>
>>>PS. No teeth missing from that cat :)
>>
>>
>>Never thought there were.  But there _are_ "teeth" missing from Crafty.  Its
>>own book and book-learning to name just two.
>
>
>
>  Why not just admitt that Tiger is the Better Program??


I never said it wasn't.  I only said the test was _flawed_.

Of course, as always, believe what you want...



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