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Subject: Re: SSDF and the programmers............

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 05:16:49 03/19/98

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On March 19, 1998 at 04:40:45, Ed Schröder wrote:

>>Posted by Bruce Moreland on March 18, 1998 at 20:44:15:
>
>>In Reply to: Re: SSDF and the programmers............ posted by Ed Schröder
>>on March 18, 1998 at 18:01:26:
>
>>On March 18, 1998 at 18:01:26, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>>Right.
>
>>>Bruce, if the SSDF people ask you to test Ferret for the list would you
>>>do it? I mean in principal?
>
>>Maybe, I don't know.  They've never asked me.
>
>>I don't have an autoplayer version, secret or public, other than the ICC
>>version, which plays its games in public.
>
>Adding the AUTO232 code is a one day job. You only have to sent the
>moves played by Ferret to the printer. The supplied NONAME driver
>does the rest.
>

Ed is talking about the DOS autoplayer. Won't work for you. For your
Win32 program, you need the Windows autoplayer. Ask Chrilly Donninger
for the code. Should be about a week's work of integrating and testing.
I've found one problem that I posted here recently. Otherwise it works
ok. You also need the special cable.

What Ed says is not true even for the DOS autoplayer. What's involved is
not only printing the moves (in some obscure format, including move
numbers and tabs that I never really managed to figure out). You also
need to have the ability for text mode, and then you have to support a
bunch of text-mode commands. All this is documented mostly in German.
Integrating the Windows autoplayer is easier because it just puts out
messages that you can service as you like. Besides it's source code and
part of your program, so you can modify it any way that suits you.

I think Ed doesn't know this because he never had to do this. The
"standard" DOS autoplayer is really a TSR that steals some interrupts,
and it knows about the common commercial programs (Rebel, Genius, Hiarcs
etc.) knows how their UI works, so it maniplates it programmatically.
For other programs there's the hook of the NONAME protocol, which each
must implement on its own. In fact every NONAME interface is a
proprietary non-standard autoplayer (not that there  is anything
standard about an autoplayer that knows exactly how the Rebel menus
work).

From my perspective there is no such thing as a standard autoplayer.
There isn't one now, there can't possibly be one, and really there's no
need for one. Obviously Ossie Weiner doesn't really understand what he
is asking for in technical terms.

While there's no standard autoplayer, and this thing is a red herring,
there is a standard autoplayer PROTOCOL, which is something completely
different. Everyone can implement the protocol and then be able to play
with another one using the protocol. This protocol is not very well
documented, but that's a different issue. The implementation of the
protocol is always proprietary and specific to one program. This is
inevitable and not at all suspicious. The proof that someone
implementated the standard correctly is that the protocol works, and
that's all that matters.

In regard to Fritz, I have no idea what their autoplayer does, but the
fact that it cooperates successfully with other autoplayers is proof
enough that it is standard AUTO232. If someone feels that things like
sticking to the same color, or saving games is a mandatory part of the
standard, they can easily enforce it on their side of the protocol.

Standards usually evolve out of consensus or by committee, and are a
good thing since they enable independent parties to cooperate. I think
this is a good opportunity to define by committee what the AUTO232
protocol is, and then no one is obliged to support anything outside what
is defined, and everyone should implement what is defined, or else risk
not being supported. I propose that Chrilly Donninger, who wrote the DOS
autoplayer, will publish his proposal for the standard protocol,
including any extensions he feels are necessary now, and put it up for
debate here. I hope when doing that he will also be speaking for Ossie
Weiner, and that will solve that problem too.

Amir




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