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Subject: Re: Goliath light does not see it at 2500 kN/s

Author: John Hatcher

Date: 14:16:29 03/16/01

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On March 16, 2001 at 16:57:30, jonas cohonas wrote:

>On March 16, 2001 at 16:53:06, jonas cohonas wrote:
>
>>On March 16, 2001 at 16:02:20, John Hatcher wrote:
>>
>>>Here is a position arising from Rueben Fine's "Basic Chess Endings", No. 309b -
>>>
>>>[D]r7/4P1k1/3K4/8/8/8/8/5R2 w
>>>
>>>White wins after 1. Ra1.  This solution was found instantly (of course) by both
>>>Wcrafty-18.6 (using Winboard) and Fritz6, both using the same 5-piece Nalimov
>>>tablebases.
>>>
>>>But now it gets strange.  What if White temporizes first with 1. Rg1+  Kf7,
>>>arising at this position:
>>>
>>>[D]r7/4Pk2/3K4/8/8/8/8/6R1 w
>>>
>>>Wcrafty-18.6 instantly finds the win after 2. Rf1+  Kg7 (not 2. ...Ke8? 3. Rf8#)
>>>3. Ra1, transposing into the first position.  However, Fritz6 doesn't see the
>>>win!?  It's engine output reads:
>>>
>>>Analysis by Fritz 6:
>>>
>>>1. = (0.03): 10.e8R Rxe8 11.Rf1+ Kg6 12.Kd5 Kg5 13.Rf7 Rd8+ 14.Ke5 Re8+
>>>2. = (0.00): 10.Re1
>>>3. = (0.00): 10.Rh1
>>>4. = (0.00): 10.Rd1
>>>5. = (0.00): 10.Ke5
>>>6. = (0.00): 10.Kd5
>>>
>>>How can Fritz6 see the win in the first position and not see it in the second?
>>>The most obvious move, 2. Rf1+, isn't even listed in the engine output!?
>>>
>>>What's going on here?  Can anyone duplicate this strange output?
>>>
>>>JOHN
>>
>>Deep Fritz finds it intantly
>>New position
>>r7/4Pk2/3K4/8/8/8/8/6R1 w - -
>>Analysis by Deep Fritz:
>>
>>2.e8Q+--
>>  ±  (0.75)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>>2.e8Q+-- Rxe8
>>  =  (0.13)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>>2.Re1!
>>  +-  (1.63)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
>>2.Re1!
>>  +-  (2.53)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
>>2.Rf1+!
>>  +-  (2.78)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
>>2.Rf1+--
>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 2/3   00:00:00
>>2.Rf1+--
>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>>2.Rc1!
>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>>2.Rc1! Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Kxe7
>>  =  (0.16)   Depth: 2/8   00:00:00
>>2.Re1!
>>  +-  (1.44)   Depth: 2/8   00:00:00
>>2.Re1! Ke8
>>  +-  (1.91)   Depth: 2/8   00:00:00
>>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Ke6 Ra6+ 4.Kd5
>>  +-  (1.75)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
>>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Ke6 Ra6+ 4.Kd5
>>  +-  (1.75)   Depth: 4/10   00:00:00  1kN
>>2.Rf1+! Kg7
>>  +-  (#31)   Depth: 4/10   00:00:00  2kN, tb=2
>>2.Rf1+ Kg7
>>  +-  (#31)   Depth: 5/5   00:00:00  2kN, tb=4
>>
>>(, MyTown 17.03.2001)
>
>
>New position
>r7/4Pk2/3K4/8/8/8/8/6R1 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Goliath Light:
>
>2.Re1 Ra6+
>  ±  (1.29)   Depth: 6/9   00:00:00
>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Ke6 Ra6+ 4.Kd5 Ra2
>  ±  (1.17)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00  10kN
>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Ke6 Ra6+ 4.Kd5 Ra2
>  ±  (1.17)   Depth: 7/13   00:00:00  25kN
>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Ke6 Ra6+ 4.Kd5 Ra2
>  ±  (1.17)   Depth: 7/19   00:00:00  29kN
>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Ke6 Ra6+ 4.Kd5 Ra2
>  ±  (1.17)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  44kN
>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Re2 Ra1 4.Ke6 Rf1
>  ±  (1.22)   Depth: 8/21   00:00:00  64kN
>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Re2 Ra1 4.Ke6 Rf1
>  ±  (1.22)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:00  105kN
>2.Re1 Ke8 3.Re2 Ra1 4.Ke6 Rf1
>  ±  (0.83)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:00  143kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:00  150kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 10/21   00:00:00  301kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 10/21   00:00:00  350kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 11/21   00:00:00  625kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 11/21   00:00:00  684kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12/21   00:00:00  1127kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12/22   00:00:00  1275kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13/24   00:00:01  2287kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13/24   00:00:01  2545kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 14/25   00:00:02  4667kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 14/25   00:00:02  5167kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 15/27   00:00:03  9043kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 15/27   00:00:04  9969kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 16/27   00:00:07  17495kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 16/27   00:00:07  19330kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 17/29   00:00:13  34956kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 17/29   00:00:15  39568kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 18/32   00:00:25  67442kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 18/32   00:00:28  76691kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 19/32   00:00:51  136472kN
>2.Re1 Ra6+ 3.Kd5 Ke8 4.Re2 Ra7 5.Kc6 Rxe7 6.Rxe7+ Kxe7 7.Kb7 Kf8
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 19/33   00:00:58  158475kN

Goliath Light does not access the Nalimov tablebases.

JOHN



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