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Subject: Re: Testposition - Double Rook ending

Author: Sune Larsson

Date: 08:38:38 03/17/01

Go up one level in this thread


On March 17, 2001 at 09:20:02, Uri Blass wrote:

>On March 17, 2001 at 08:59:05, Sune Larsson wrote:
>
>>On March 17, 2001 at 08:20:29, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On March 17, 2001 at 06:58:59, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 17, 2001 at 04:19:57, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  [D]2r3k1/4pp1p/3p2p1/p2R4/1r6/1P4P1/P3PP1P/R5K1 b - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>  IM Giardelli,S  2438 - GM Andersson,U  2640
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  There is a tournament played in Argentine right now. Among the participants
>>>>>  you notice, among others, GM Larsen, GM Panno and GM Andersson.
>>>>>
>>>>>  The link is here: http://www.utopiasdepinamar.com.ar/magistral/
>>>>>
>>>>>  The above position is from the 9th round, where Ulf shows his technique
>>>>>  and skills in a double rook ending. This man can make things look easy!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Test: This might be an interesting position for programs to play out.
>>>>>        A little indicator of how your program handles these endings.
>>>>>        Actually it's possible to make a tourney, with several programs,
>>>>>        played from the above position.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Giardelli-Andersson went:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Giardelli - Andersson
>>>>>Double Rook ending, 2001
>>>>>
>>>>>A nice example of GM Andersson's technique and skill in endgames. Black is
>>>>>better here and Andersson gives his opponent no mercy. 1...a4 2.Rd3 Rc2 3.Kf1
>>>>>Re4 4.e3 Rb4 5.h4 Rb2 6.bxa4 Rxa4 7.a3 Rc4 8.Kg2 Rcc2 9.Rf1 Ra2 10.Kf3 Rc5 11.g4
>>>>>h5 12.Rg1 Kg7 13.gxh5 Rxh5 14.Rg4 Rf5+ 15.Rf4 Ra5 16.Re4 Kf6 17.Rf4+ Ke6 18.Rdd4
>>>>>R2xa3 19.Rde4+ Re5 20.Rxe5+ dxe5 21.Rb4 f6 22.Rb7 Ra4 23.Kg3 f5 24.Rb6+ Kf7
>>>>>25.Kh3 Rg4 26.f3 Rc4 27.Rb3 e4 28.fxe4 Rxe4 29.Ra3 Kg7 0-1
>>>>>White cannot avoid further material loss.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This is the above position in a shoot out by Deep Fritz at ply 14.
>>>>
>>>>Ny ställning
>>>>Spela ut (DeepFritz, 14ply) , 2001
>>>>
>>>>1...a4 2.bxa4  -0.31/14  39  Rb2  -0.38/14  28  3.e3 (a5)  -0.41/14  50
>>>>3...Rcc2  -0.41/14  15  4.Rf1  -0.41/14  25  Rc4  -0.59/14  30  5.Ra5  -0.59/14
>>>>21  Rxa2 (Kg7)  -0.66/14  20  6.Ra7  -0.44/14  16  Kf8 (e6)  -0.72/14  21  7.Rb1
>>>>(a5)  -0.69/14  28  7...Rcc2  -0.78/14  22  8.Rf1  -0.78/14  20  f5 (f6)
>>>>-0.91/14  18  9.Kg2 (h3)  -0.91/14  31  9...Rc4  -0.94/14  12  10.a5  -0.97/14
>>>>34  Rca4  -1.03/14  26  11.Rb1  -1.06/14  45  Rxa5  -1.06/14  19  12.Rxa5
>>>>-1.09/14  45  Rxa5  -1.06/14  20  13.h3  -1.09/14  31  Kf7  -1.19/14  22  14.g4
>>>>-1.12/14  26  fxg4  -1.13/14  24  15.hxg4  -1.12/14  30  h5  -1.09/14  41  16.f4
>>>> -1.09/14  1:35  hxg4  -1.16/14  54  17.Kg3  -1.06/14  8  Ra3  -1.13/14  10
>>>>18.Re1  -1.06/14  4  e5  -1.16/14  9  19.fxe5 (Kxg4)  -1.12/14  10  19...d5
>>>>-1.09/14  5  20.Kxg4  -1.41/14  6  Ke6  -1.41/14  7  21.Kf3  -1.47/14  8  Kxe5
>>>>-1.50/14  9  22.Rd1  -1.37/14  5  Rc3  -1.44/14  4  23.Ke2  -1.41/14  5  Rc4
>>>>-1.34/14  8  24.Rg1  -1.37/14  3  Kf5  -1.25/14  7  25.Rf1+  -1.22/14  7  Ke4
>>>>-1.25/14  4  26.Rg1  -1.22/14  5  Rc2+  -1.19/14  3  27.Kd1  -1.16/14  2  Rc6
>>>>-1.22/14  5  28.Ke2 (Kd2)  -1.19/14  3  28...Kf5 (Te6)  -1.13/14  8  29.Kd3
>>>>(Tf1+)  -1.09/14  8  29...Ra6  -1.13/14  9  30.Kd4  -1.09/14  7  Ra5  -1.06/14
>>>>11  31.Rc1  -1.22/14  9  g5  -1.22/14  9  32.Rh1  -0.78/14  13  Rb5  -0.75/14
>>>>30  33.Rh8  -0.81/14  15  Kg4  -1.13/14  13  34.Rh1  -0.94/14  9  Kf3  -1.16/14
>>>>9  35.Rf1+  -1.47/14  12  Ke2  -1.47/14  3  36.Rf5  -0.72/14  6  Rb4+  -0.72/14
>>>>6  37.Kc5  -0.72/14  2  Rg4  -0.69/14  4  38.Re5  -0.75/14  4  Rg3  -0.81/14  4
>>>>39.Kxd5  -0.75/14  3  g4  -0.56/14  6  40.Kd4  -0.75/14  15  Rf3  -0.41/14  9
>>>>41.Rg5  -0.37/14  2  g3  -0.06/14  5  42.e4  0.00/14  4  Ra3 (Td3+)  0.03/14  13
>>>> 43.e5  0.00/14  5  Kf3 (Ta4+)  0.00/14  9  44.e6 (Tg8)  0.00/14  6  44...Ra4+
>>>>0.09/14  14  45.Kd3  0.00/14  6  g2 (Ta3+)  0.00/14  15  46.e7 (Tg8)  0.00/14
>>>>10  46...Ra8 (Ta3+)  0.00/14  11  47.Rg6 (Tg7)  0.00/14  11  47...Re8 0.00/14
>>>>12  ½-½
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sune
>>>
>>>I think that you forget the fact that GM andersson played against an IM and not
>>>against Deep Fritz.
>>>
>>>There is no proof that black's advantage is enough to win.
>>>
>>>I also do not understand the decision to use depth 14.
>>>Using fixed time seems to be more logical.
>>
>> I disagree. 1) I'm very well aware of the fact that GM Andersson played
>>                against IM Giardelli and not Deep Fritz. Just look below
>>                the board.
>
>Yopu are right but you also said that GM andersson can make things look easy.


 Right. That is my experience after having played through lots of his games.

>
>I think that the loser made things look easy.

 Okey, but Andersson often make things look easy by displaying optimal
 endgame handling.

>
>I analyzed the game and he did some mistakes.
>
>The first mistake was the move 10.Kf3 that is losing a pawn and the last mistake
>is 28.fxe4 that is losing another pawn.

 Instead of 10.Kf3 Deep Fritz suggests 10.e4, but after 10.-h5! white has
 a very cramped position. At depth 19 Fritz sees only passive moves for
 white and gives -0.44. IMHO black has excellent winning chances here.


>
>
>>
>>2) Where do I state that black's advantage is enough to win?
>>I wrote that black is better in the above position.

>Yes but the impression from the claim:"This man can make things look easy" is
>that black has a won position.

 That is your, very subjective, interpretation of my words.


>
>I looked at the game and it seems to me that even after 10.Kf3 it is a draw.

 I cannot be that cathegorical without proof.

>
>22.Rb7 is not good and I agree with deep fritz that 22.Kg4 is better

 After f.e. 22.Kg4 Ra2 23.f3 Ra3 24.e4 f5+ I still think black has excellent
 winning chances.


>23.Kg3 is also not good and 23.e4 is suggested by Deep Fritz.

 After f.e. 23.e4 Ra3+ 24.Kg4 Ra2 and later followed by f5, the above comment
 is still valid to me.

>
>I suspect that the IM simply did not see 23.e4 and thought that he must defend
>the pawn h4 with the king(a typical mistake of humans who do not do 1 ply
>search)

 That might be true.
>
>Uri



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