Author: Keith Ian Price
Date: 22:37:33 03/19/98
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On March 19, 1998 at 03:41:15, Ed Schröder wrote: > >For me this is a correct conclusion. > >Others disagree. Others say see it as an innovation. Or as a >development you can't stop. Or as making a chess program as a >complete chess player. Or in a match everything is allowed. > >I say yes to all of this as long this is related to HUMAN-COMP but >not for COMP-COMP games on SSDF and (miss) using AUTO232 for that >purpose. > >I noticed that besides you and a few others most people do not >share my views I have tried to share. I guess I will lose this >discussion. So I like to be out. I hereby resign. > >- Ed - > > I also agree with your position. I think programmers spend too much time improving their programs for the SSDF, instead of for humans. This is one reason I think Bob and Bruce have it right, and the true testing agency should be the chess servers. Who cares if MFritzo Pro '98 can beat GenReb 14 on SSDF if against the humans their rating is 2300 while playing 40/2 on the chess servers. Of course, the problem is that most games on the chess servers aren't 40/2, but if one were to arrange a computer chess qualification tournament to be run every three months on ICC, I bet that enough IMs and GMs would be willing to participate for purposes of establishing true ratings. Then again, maybe not. But without Aegon, something has to be done. But I understand what you are saying. If you are going to resign from this discussion, don't do it by removing the autoplayer capability from your next version, as you have stated previously, which will only punish those of us who like to play them against each other. Instead, do it by implementing the best cheating learner for grabbing the number one spot on SSDF, and when you do, and they all complain how it's so unfair, repost this thread for them to read. I don't pay much attention to the SSDF results, since all the top programs are so close, it really makes no difference. Did I wait until it was number one before I bought Rebel? No, I waited until it was on special for DM 99. Did I wait until Fritz 5 was number one? No, I bought it right after it lost 6 games to Crafty. I bought it because of its features, not its strength. Only to find that with all the wonderful features, it doesn't have an autoplayer, because they are afraid of losing points on SSDF. Well, no Fritz 6 for me. I'll probably wait for Fritz 16, when the true ELO improvement is sufficient to warrant an upgrade, if they add no features, and leave out the autoplayer. Note this is true for any program whose next version has no more features than the last, and relies only on its 20-point rise in ELO on SSDF to sell it, and is not directed toward Fritz itself. So please don't take features out of Rebel 10, improve them instead. Thanks, kp kp
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