Author: John Merlino
Date: 17:21:10 03/20/01
Go up one level in this thread
On March 20, 2001 at 19:44:04, Peter Berger wrote: >On March 20, 2001 at 18:31:43, John Merlino wrote: > >a patch... >> >>This is an industry-wide problem; I would say that, roughly, 99% of all products >>that get released get patched (this would also include entirely new "versions" >>that also include bug-fixes from previous versions). The 1% (and, perhaps, less >>than that) is for the programs that are either miraculously bug-free (because it >>WOULD be miraculous) or because the program sold so poorly (or was so poorly >>received) that the company isn't even going to spend money putting together a >>patch. >> >>jm > >How come ? > >Let's limit to chessprograms . > >There used to be a lot of programs around nearly free of bugs . > >To name more recent ones : Shredder 4 , Genius 5 and Junior 5 . > >At least for the first two ones I am sure they didn't sell too bad at all . > >There are others who have some minor bugs . These programs are nowhere near as complex as Chessmaster in terms of feature set. The TYPICAL Chessmaster user is simply a person who wants to play the occasional game of chess, or is little Johnny or Joanie with his/her first chess program because his/her parents thought it would be a good idea. This requires a completely different design/GUI mindset than the one required for Shredder/Genius/Junior/et. al. Admittedly, this is not the fault of the three programs you mentioned. But it is a well-known fact that the probability of bugs increases exponentially with the size of the code. I can't speak for the other programs, but CM8000 has about 370 code modules (C and CPP files) that total about 8.5 MB of text. There are also about 300 header files (H files) that total a little less than 3.0 MB of text. This is approximately equivalent to 11 paperback novels. When was the last time you read a book without a typo in it? You would think those would be easy to spot, right? What are editors for? Well, they get missed, just like bugs get missed, no matter how much testing you do. And, there WAS a lot of testing. Not counting the 7 developers themselves, there were 7 testers who worked on the product for 10 weeks. There are also DirectX, Miles Sound System, video/sound card, and installation issues which are, to some degree at least, out of the Chessmaster development team's hands. In other words, I am confident in saying that Chessmaster is more complex than your typical RTS or 3D Shooter program, possibly much more. Starcraft was one of the "most bug-free" programs that I can recall when it was initially released. It had three patches.... >But when we talk about Chessmaster this is for sure the buggiest of them all . > >They seem to have a professional testing team ; a lot of problems are reported , >and then there usually is a patch . > >But do things get better with the patched version ? > >Nope . Of course they do. Ask anybody who has gotten the 1.0.1 patch (or the 1.0.2 for the non-US users). I would certainly understand a complaint if things (on the whole) got WORSE. But this is simply not the case.... > >The newest patch ( this time for CM8000 ) not only didn't fix some of the most >obvious problems ( like CM crashing when trying to save a game or when you >choose browse while installing a XBoard engine ) , it even did major havoc to my >computer so that it won't shutdown without errors anymore and it partly broke my >internet access by changing a few system files . The crash when trying to save a game or browsing (which is basically bringing up the file dialog) is a video card driver problem. Everybody who has updated their drivers for their video cards has resolved this problem. The patch does not modify any system files, and only makes one modification to the Windows registry, to specify which version you have installed/patched. Nobody else has reported this problem, to my knowledge.... >I am definitely prepared to things like that with CM and its patches by now so I >take care of backups , but : hey , what do all these testers do ? Besides : do >all of them reside in the US so that you can't avoid the most simple problems >involved with regional settings ? Yes, all of the testers reside in the US because it is company policy to only allow employees to test the programs. There are no external beta testers. >The King engines are _very_ strong , the features of CM are the best of them all >IMHO , but the quality/reliability of the product is simply crap ( sorry , but I >can't find a way to say it in a friendlier way ) . That's ok. I've heard worse.... :-) >I recently worked on a little manual for installing a WinBoard engine under CM ; >there are at least 2 major bugs that have to be adressed in a manual to give >people a fair chance ; when everything is setup it is definitely one of the best >implementations of the WinBoard protocol IMHO , but the bugs are SOOO obvious >that it is unbelievable they haven't been adressed or fixed in the patch . They probably haven't been addressed because they haven't been reported. What bugs are you talking about? You can never assume that if YOU see a bug, then everybody else (or even ANYBODY else) also sees it. >In fact I really don't understand this at all ; the company selling CM even >hires an account manager ( that you ) who deals with customers in a most >professional and friendly way IMHO ; so part of the support structure is >outstanding . That is DEFINITELY not my job description. I am doing ALL of this on my spare time. >But : how about the quality of the product ? Look at any professional review. While, admittedly, many of them know nothing about computer chess, and several others merely take a cursory glance (which in my opinion is unethical), I cannot recall any "bad" reviews of any version of Chessmaster. >I have definitely been a Chessmaster fan since CM6000 but the answers to these >questions puzzle me . That's what I'm here for -- to help clear things up. And I'll keep trying until they ARE cleared up, or until we agree to disagree.... ;-) jm
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