Author: John Merlino
Date: 13:10:33 03/30/01
Go up one level in this thread
On March 30, 2001 at 15:02:59, Mike S. wrote: >On March 30, 2001 at 13:51:30, John Merlino wrote: > >>On March 29, 2001 at 21:36:49, Mike S. wrote: >> > >>Chessmaster 8000 does this. I just tried loading a game which was human vs. >>comp, with the position saved at comp (Black) to move. Immediately after loading >>the game, the comp's clock started ticking and a few seconds later, the comp >>made a move. > >This depends on the color (furthermore, when you load a *PGN* game, CM set the >level to infinite - but that another problem. It should keep the level which was >set before): Let's say CM has *white*. Now, set up a position with white having >the move, and "apply" it. Seemingly, nothing happens - if the user doesn't have >the thinkink lines window opened, it even looks as if the program has frozen. It >doesn't allow the human to move - because the human has black... White's clock >has *not* been started. But actually, CM is thinking already and will make the >move, depending on the level. The PGN problem is a bug. It will be fixed in the final patch. However, the clock not starting for White until the first move is a design decision that has always been in Chessmaster, and it is mainly a kindness to our typical user. >>Do you want the calculation to start immediately or not? > >No. Then you DO need the "Wake Up" feature to tell the computer to start thinking. It would probably be a more common occurrence for users to WANT the computer to start thinking immediately, (as in the case of a game that you are loading and want to continue -- remember our typical user here). >Have you been aware of the follwing, very simple situation while using >Chessmaster: > >- I play against CM, and CM has the white pieces. >- Game ends, and I want to play another, this time I want white... >- I choose "New Game" (big mistake! :o) >- CM immmediatly moves for white! > >Do you see why this is not user-friendly? Of course, I would have had to bring >up the "Game Setup" dialugue before, etc... This is totally reasonable. When you select "New Game" the game setup dialog comes up with the settings for the previous/current game. If you want to change them, you need to change them. It is only reasonable to assume that the user wants to keep everything the same as before, rather than assume switching sides. >Maybe you should ask around for other opinions. I'm sure most computer chess >fans will acknowledge, that CM is absolutely *non-standard* in this respect of >color assignment, starting the thinking process etc. I suggest just copy it from >99% of all other chess program which do it like this: I don't know about the other users on this board, but I've heard no complaints from any users who send e-mail to the chessmaster address regarding game setup. >>>5. At the start of a normal game, colors are assigned simply by either >>> >>>(a) the human makes the white move, or >>>(b) the human uses "computer move" to start the program. >> >>This would be very non-intuitive for our typical user. Imagine how many people >>would be waiting for the computer (and which personality is playing?) to make a >>move before they figured out that they had to TELL the computer to move (which >>does not mirror reality anyway -- why should White (the comp) not move until >>Black (the human) says "go ahead and start now"). > >I don't think so... at least, all other chess software companies, and their >customers respectively (and all chess computer manufacturers from the past and >their coustomers), seem not to have any problem with the logic described in (5). >>>6. They never fall asleep (and if they do, it's a bug). >> >>This (rare) bug was fixed in the patch. > >No... :o) what would the "Wake up" command be for then? (I don't have an example >at the moment). "Wake Up" is only necessary if you use the move list controls to go backward/forward in the current game. That immediately stops all calculation, allowing the user to move around the game as much as he/she wants. If/when the user wants the computer to resume the game, he/she sets the move list to a point where its the comp's turn to move, and uses "Wake Up". If the user sets the game to a point where it is a human's turn to move, making a move will automatically start the comp thinking on its turn. >Anyway, thanks for reading and replying to my long post. No problem, it's why I'm here. >First I thought, some other CM users here are going to support my suggestions, >but it doesn't seem so at the moment. Everybody has different opinions, and it's the job of the dev team to decide which one is best or most requested. We appreciate all input, as always. jm
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