Author: Frank Quisinsky
Date: 15:23:54 03/30/01
Go up one level in this thread
On March 30, 2001 at 17:35:06, Dann Corbit wrote:
>On March 30, 2001 at 16:55:02, Brian Kostick wrote:
>
>>On March 30, 2001 at 16:07:31, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On March 30, 2001 at 15:20:05, James Robertson wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've noticed that a lot of programs are now battling the web. Does anybody know
>>>>how many people are actually voting though? Gambit Tiger, for instance, only has
>>>>the percentages, and not the actual numbers of voters.
>>>>
>>>>Out of curiosity, are these programs actually playing the "Web" or are they in
>>>>reality just playing a few dozen chess freaks from this site? Does anybody know
>>>>how many voters (even a very rough average will be interesting) there are for
>>>>the games Deep Fritz, Deep Shredder, and Gambit Tiger vs. the web?
>>>>
>>>>I'm hoping the numbers are not too low. The fact that Deep Shredder's game was
>>>>advertized on kasparovchess.com and TWIC is really good. Maybe this will attract
>>>>substantially more people.
>>>
>>>"X verses the Web" is an old gimmick. Actually, most of the time, "the web"
>>>plays much more poorly than a single good opponent. Imagine, a big committee
>>>voting on which move to make. Are most of them spending 24 hours of computer
>>>time analyzing a move or GM's themselves? Surely not. In general, it is a
>>>farce (to my way of thinking) but a nice way to gather publicity. I think the
>>>Kasparov match was different, however. For some reason, a very large group
>>>galvanized resources very well, and organized fairly efficiently. The
>>>commentary by the experts was quite good (and gave me new respect for I. Kush).
>>>At any rate, that sort of high quality match [despite the attempted sabotage] is
>>>_by far_ the exception rather than the rule.
>>>
>>>If you want to see very high quality chess, you will get far, far better by a
>>>match between two highly rated opponents than one high quality opponent verses
>>>the web. I think I could probably beat most people on the internet (which isn't
>>>saying much) but I am absolutely sure that a really good player like Vincent,
>>>Djordie, or Come would slaughter me repeatedly. So you get ten thousand morons
>>>to collectively make their choice -- how good is that choice going to be? Even
>>>if experts give excellent analysis -- will they even understand it?
>>>
>>>I suspect [snicker] that the higher the number of votes received, the LOWER the
>>>quality of the move generated. If a move got a million votes, it is almost SURE
>>>to be a real dog.
>>>
>>>IMO - YMMV.
>>
>>Dann,
>>
>> You write as if it's really ProgramX vs. the Web (where the Web describes
>>thinking, chess playing individuals?). In reality I think the winning vote ends
>>up being ProgramX vs. ManyPrograms, with 'ManyProgams' thinking maybe 16
>>min./move average but that's really just a guess on my part. The major vote
>>discrepancies I've observed seem due to opening book lines. Regards, B.K.
>
>Depends on who participates, doesn't it?
>
>I think this match was also broadcast to a wide audience. If it was known only
>here, that would probably be the case (with a few good chess players throuwn
>in).
>
>In any case, I think that the "X verses the World!" matches are little more than
>parlour tricks. In fact, I don't like them.
Hi Dann,
yes to many of this games, but all is not very important.
Important is that user have fun on the page and on chess programs.
Not all have interest to play engine - engine matches, more people have interest
to make long analyses with chess programs. So is an experiment with a strong
chess program and hardware interesting in my opinion.
01. The question is:
In how many time found Shredder a better move in position a or b !
02. The question is:
Is ply 17-18 enough (I think the best chess programs play with 2.400 ELO
in correspondence chess (no more). Shredder is a program with a lot of
knowledge, World Champion, very strong in endgame ...
But very important is that the webpage is good enough. I think with a webpage
with different possibilies user have more fun on this event.
We will see, I like the idea and I hope to find a lot of analyses with other
programs in the DEEP SHREDDER vs. THE WORLD forum.
Best
Frank
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