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Subject: Re: Gambit Tiger 2 Analysis Mode fail in endgame

Author: James T. Walker

Date: 16:42:35 04/02/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 02, 2001 at 16:18:27, Chessfun wrote:

>On April 02, 2001 at 16:04:02, Laurence Chen wrote:
>
>>On April 02, 2001 at 15:33:41, Georg v. Zimmermann wrote:
>>
>>>On April 02, 2001 at 09:23:09, Laurence Chen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 01, 2001 at 23:27:21, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 01, 2001 at 22:13:01, Laurence Chen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I think the Beta testers failed to check for bugs and they were supposed to >check for all bugs, no for chess engine strenght alone, this annoys me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Be serious we do far more than look at the engines. All bugs are reported.
>>>>>The choice to make changes or not to make changes is the choice of
>>>>>the programmers.
>>>>>
>>>>>From the Rebel Board;
>>>>>
>>>>>Kyodai
>>>>>Member
>>>>>Posts: 48
>>>>>Registered: Sep 2000
>>>>>  posted 03-24-2001 09:51
>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>1) I open CP5 and Gambit Tiger is loaded with 96 MB hash.
>>>>>2) I then right click the board - clear board and enter the following position:
>>>>>White: Kc2, Rf1 Pawn b2
>>>>>Black: Kg6, Rh8
>>>>>3) Then finish this set up and hit the icon for analysis mode.
>>>>>4) No moves are displayed in the statistics
>>>>>window. At the bottom it reads: "60 minutes--------0-0--------01.00----01.00,
>>>>>since the
>>>>>previous used level was game in 60'
>>>>>5)When I hit "computer move" it looks allright in the statistics window. This
>>>>>error
>>>>>happens frequently. What's wrong?
>>>>>B) I set up a position - play from this against Tiger - save the game and result
>>>>>as **.pgn - then open this DB - the game is there. When I then try to load it by
>>>>>double clicking the game - only the result is shown-
>>>>>no moves. Am I overlooking something simple?
>>>>>
>>>>>Kyodai
>>>>>
>>>>>--------------
>>>>>
>>>>>lex
>>>>>Member
>>>>>Posts: 308
>>>>>Registered: Nov 1999
>>>>>  posted 03-24-2001 11:10
>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>12345) Is this with Gambit Tiger 2.0 ?? Here it happens when the position is in
>>>>>the Tablebases, when I disable the TB's it is ok.
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>What you speak of was known a while ago.
>>>>>Also read Jim Walker's post which is clear enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sarah.
>>>>I don't go to the Rebel board, so I was not aware of this bug.  I also program
>>>>software for a living, and it's not a good thing for me to implement a bug
>>>>software in my company because it would irate a lot of users, and my boss
>>>>wouldn't be happy about.  Quality Control is very important, and I wish it was
>>>>also with software, specially with a lot of commercial software.  Sometimes a
>>>>lot of bugs are not discovered because the users or beta testers fail to spot
>>>>them, or report them.  Take the example of CM8000, it has a lot of bugs when it
>>>>was release, and I can't believe that they allowed such software hit the market,
>>>>yes, a patch was made available, but it took at least 3 months before it was
>>>>made available.  This may be all right with a game, but still it should not be
>>>>used as an excuse.  We need good quality software releases, not bug software
>>>>which are release in order to meet the deadline. I think that's bad marketing.
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Laurence
>>>
>>>Hmm, I expected a "I am sorry my appologies to beta testers" when I opened your
>>>post, not this. I can hardly believe that you write "software for a living"
>>>without knowing that no complex program can be bug free. Even if that would be
>>>possible it would be a matter of priorities ...
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Geor
>>If we continue to accept that it's all right to buy "buggy" software, then the
>>people or companies which deliver "buggy" software will continue to do so, and a
>>vicious cycle continues.  I remember that my company bought a piece of software,
>>and it cost several thousands of dollars, the demo which was sent showed that it
>>could deliver and perform all the tasks which management wanted, however, when
>>the day came to use the real thing, it had so many bugs, it was not able to
>>handle a large scale of users, it could only handle a maximum of 2 users, and
>>these users had to be in the same segment of the the network, also it was not
>>compatible with the latest version of Excel, and guess what, the salesperson
>>promised that if would be.  My point is we consumers should take a stand and
>>refuse to support "bug" software, and hopefully within time, the quality control
>>of software engineering will improve.  Look at cars, would you buy a "bug" car.
>>The japanese cars in the 60's and 70's used to be like that, very "buggy" and
>>unreliable.  Nowadays, Japanese cars are very reliable.  I understand that no
>>software is "bug" free, but that should not be used as an excuse.  Would you
>>take a trip on a "bug" airplane which is 95% reliable, would you take a chance
>>on the 5% and hope that the "bug" doesn't show up?
>>
>>In US, congress one time wanted to pass legislation against companies which
>>deliver "buggy" software, because "buggy" software can cost business a lot of
>>down time and money.  Too bad, they were not able to pass that legislation, it
>>would certainly forced Bill Gates to deliver more solid and reliable OS.
>
>
>I think Georg meant simply that you should have in this case apologized
>to the Rebel Beta testers. You originally wrote in relation to Tiger 14
>and Gambit 2.0;
>
>"I think the Beta testers failed to check for bugs and they were supposed to
>check for all bugs, no for chess engine strenght alone, this annoys me."
>
>This statement was simply wrong and should have been apologized for.
>Don't know about the CM8K nor care about Excel. But I do care about the
>statement you make relevant to the Rebel testers, which was the subject
>noted.
>
>Sarah.

I would like to add one more reminder.  This was not a "Bugfix", this was a
major update for FREE.  It is not perfect and neither is ANY chess software that
I own.  I also found a bug at the last minute which could not be fixed before
the final release.  I don't know if it will be fixed in a patch or just wait
till the next commercial version.  In any case I don't think anyone who gets
this free update should complain.  It's a grrrreat program!
Jim



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