Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 14:24:50 04/04/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 04, 2001 at 15:18:41, Chessfun wrote:
>On April 04, 2001 at 12:52:57, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On April 04, 2001 at 10:43:24, stuart taylor wrote:
>>
>>>On April 04, 2001 at 09:13:03, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 04, 2001 at 09:00:51, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 04, 2001 at 08:54:59, Aloisio Ponti Lopes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bullet 1 minute/game matches on ERT:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gambit Tiger 2 x Yace 0.99 76 x 24
>>>>>>Gambit Tiger 2 x Crafty 18.1 66,5 x 33,5
>>>>>>Gambit Tiger 2 x LG2000v2.9 90 x 10 !!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A. Ponti
>>>>>
>>>>>how about setting both engines to 'instant move'
>>>>>and then play a few thousands of games?
>>>>
>>>>Oh my god
>>>
>>>If Kramnik or Kasparov were playing at instant time, or even 1 minute per game,
>>>I think their level of play would be quite weak.
>>> I don't see the real need of concentrating on making programs to play 2-300
>>>elo points higher on lightning speed than at longer controls, much more so than
>>>the way humans do it.
>>> I don't even see what the great fun is in testing it. It's a little bit
>>>interesting, but not all that much. I don't think it can be used to demonstrate
>>>the quality of the program. Maybe the contrary is true, as the longer timings
>>>are the interesting thing.
>>>S.Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>>When you get a new program I think it's quite natural to begin with fast time
>>controls, so you get an overview on a large number of games in a reasonnable
>>amount of time.
>>
>>Do you think Aloiso is going to stop now? I guess he is going to try longer time
>>controls.
>>
>>Fast time controls are also important because they are commonly used on the
>>chess servers.
>>
>>Another thing to consider is that game in one minute on a PIII-800 computer must
>>be something like game in 4 hours on the hardware of 10 years ago.
>>
>>If 10 years ago you or other chess enthusiasts were interested in games in 4
>>hours, then I don't understand why you would regard game in 1 minute on today's
>>computers with such contempt. These games show probably an even better chess
>>level (because software has been vastly improved).
>>
>>And finally, you could complain if the program in question (Tiger) was only
>>specialized for fast time controls, but as you will see it is not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>
>I'm not sure that you can compare exactly as all programs behave differently
>especially such fast lightning games. I would think a lot of it depends on
>pruning especially at such fast speeds.
>
>Currently I have been running a 15 engine 1 min 1 sec inc Lightning
>tournament all play all 80 games each, 8400 games total, this is autoplayed
>and has been running now for about 10 days and currently Tiger leads Gambit
>by about 5 with about a 20 point gap till the next engine, Nimzo 7.32 is in
>last and the Shredder's have yet to play. All programs using their original
>opening books except crafty which is using general.ctg. All 5 men tablebases
>to programs that use them.
>
>While I agree both Tiger's are also very strong at longer controls currently
>with the results I have, most matches are being won by say 50-30. At longer
>controls while my results were very good they weren't this impressive.
It can be an effect of the so-called "dimishing returns" in computer chess.
The effect has not been demonstrated yet, so it is still speculation, but many
people expect more computing power (or time to compute) to give less and less
strength increase.
If it is true, the consequence is that at longer time controls the strength
differences between programs tend to be less and less perceptible.
Another consequence would be that the current trend of putting trust only on
long time controls games played on the fastest available computers will lead to
more and more confusion about the relative strength of chess programs. Because
the error margin of matches will be greater than the difference in playing
strength.
Christophe
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