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Subject: Re: Good idea!!

Author: Frank Quisinsky

Date: 10:05:19 04/14/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 14, 2001 at 12:00:34, Jonas Cohonas wrote:

>On April 14, 2001 at 11:45:07, Chris Taylor wrote:
>
>>On April 14, 2001 at 11:11:39, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>
>>>On April 14, 2001 at 06:31:18, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>>
>>>>it is a very interesting match.
>>>>World Champion Vladimir Kramnik vs. Computer World Champion 1996, 1999, 2000 and
>>>>IPCCC Champion 2000, 2001 Shredder.
>>>>
>>>>I don`t believe that a winner from a living room tournament can play against WM
>>>>Vladmir Kramnik. The "Donald Duck" qualifikation in a "Micky Mouse" tournament
>>>>is not interesting.
>>>>
>>>>Compare to:
>>>>Frank Quisinsky play a WinBoard tourney at home and the winner can play against
>>>>Kasparov :-))
>>>>
>>>>Shredder won all important tournaments and I think it is not a question which
>>>>program can / must play against Vladimir Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>The question for me is now:
>>>>If Enrique play a quallification tournament I can`t believe that the TOP
>>>>programmer will start on this tournament. In the regular tournaments no program
>>>>can beat Shredder after now 33 games. So I think for the top programmers is also
>>>>clear which program must play against Vladimir Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>Now we will see ...
>>>>I lose my interest on computer chess if I see that Shredder can`t not play
>>>>directly against Vladimir Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>But interesting is:
>>>>After the big event Shredder vs. Kramnik a living room tournament is good enough
>>>>for play after the game 1 blitz game against Vladimir Kramnik :-))
>>>>
>>>>What thinking the members of CCC.
>>>>I wonder if the most member have an other opinion.
>>>>
>>>>What thinking the programmer of Junior, Fritz, Gandalf, The King, Rebel, Hiarcs,
>>>>Nimzo, Shredder, Tiger !
>>>>
>>>>Yes Christophe, Ed, Amir what do you think:
>>>>
>>>>Do you think I will play vs. Vladimir Kramnik or do you think no Shredder must
>>>>play against Vladimir Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>Best
>>>>Frank
>>>
>>>Frank i respect you a lot, but this time you seem to have gone off the Deep end
>>>so to speak. The reason i think a qualification of progs is important and asked
>>>for, is the fact that Shedder don't perform as well in tournaments when beta
>>>testers is running them, therefore we need to have a shootout between all the
>>>best progs, also GT2 and CT14 has, AFAIK, not had a chance to meet Shredder 5
>>>or Deep Shredder in "real" tounament like IPCCC. Program strenght changes all
>>>the time or should i say increase. Also it is important to take into account,
>>>that this time it is man Vs. machine and all bets are off, actually we should
>>>have a top ten of programs meet ten human GM's to determine what prog will get
>>>the honour, but since i don't see that happening we should settle for the second
>>>best thing and let the progs have a silicon shootout in order to get the best
>>>opponent for Kramnik. If Shredder is really so dominating as the record suggest
>>>,33 and no losses, then there should be nothing to worry about, but i for one
>>>would like to be sure. As to the "donald duck"/"mickey mouse" reference
>>>i can only shake my head in disbelief, but it rhymes perfectly with your recent
>>>enthusiastic posts of Shredder Vs the Web, which i have found strange since you,
>>>AFAIK, dont even test Shredder yourself.
>>>I think in retrospect that from prog Vs human scores Deep Junior should play
>>>Kramnik, but putting it that simply, would not be fair to all the other progs,
>>>so i say let the nodes decide :-) As a chess enthusiast one should not forget
>>>that COMPetition and COMPetitions will always make our beloved progs stronger,
>>>no one prog should get exclusive right's to such a match due to 33 games.
>>>Imagine if you should chose a human opponent in this case kramnik Vs X, but then
>>>saying: "hey there is this guy who have scored better than kramnik on fics in
>>>the last 33 games he played so he should play instead" only to find out that
>>>this guy was shredder in disguise lol :-) no just kidding here, but as a beta
>>>tester only selecting one prog based on previous results seems absurd.
>>>GO DJ.
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>Jonas
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>Jonas
>>>
>>>Ps: My reference to IPCCC being a "real" tounament, is not meant as condesending
>>>just to sinlge it out from other tournaments, (like the brilliant ones of
>>>mr.Enrique )
>>
>>Ask him to play a *simul* against all of them. Line up 10 computers.  It would
>>be a sight to see his eyes glaze over, as he battled the best computers +
>>programs!
>>This way you don't need to pick out one prog, and have a bunch of others lose
>>out!
>>
>>Chris Taylor
>
>Good idea, but i dont see that happening :-( i would even go a step further and
>say we should have a double round robin bet(a)ween the top ten human players and
>the top ten progs. But how do we find out who's the top ten engines VS human's?
>
>Regards
>Jonas

Hi Jonas,

yes the idea is for the first moment good, only for the first moment :-)

The comptuer chess people will see a match against the World Champion. The
Grandmasters will see a match from a Computer Chess World Champion against
Kramnik.

For me is clear ...
Highlander princip !!

Best
Frank



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