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Subject: Re: Deep Shredder vs. Vladimir Kramnik ... what thinking the programmers of

Author: Frank Quisinsky

Date: 14:38:12 04/14/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 14, 2001 at 17:10:38, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On April 14, 2001 at 12:54:32, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>
>>On April 14, 2001 at 07:37:13, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On April 14, 2001 at 06:31:18, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>>
>>>>it is a very interesting match.
>>>>World Champion Vladimir Kramnik vs. Computer World Champion 1996, 1999, 2000 and
>>>>IPCCC Champion 2000, 2001 Shredder.
>>>>
>>>>I don`t believe that a winner from a living room tournament can play against WM
>>>>Vladmir Kramnik. The "Donald Duck" qualifikation in a "Micky Mouse" tournament
>>>>is not interesting.
>>>>
>>>>Compare to:
>>>>Frank Quisinsky play a WinBoard tourney at home and the winner can play against
>>>>Kasparov :-))
>>>>
>>>>Shredder won all important tournaments and I think it is not a question which
>>>>program can / must play against Vladimir Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>The question for me is now:
>>>>If Enrique play a quallification tournament I can`t believe that the TOP
>>>>programmer will start on this tournament. In the regular tournaments no program
>>>>can beat Shredder after now 33 games. So I think for the top programmers is also
>>>>clear which program must play against Vladimir Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>Now we will see ...
>>>>I lose my interest on computer chess if I see that Shredder can`t not play
>>>>directly against Vladimir Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>But interesting is:
>>>>After the big event Shredder vs. Kramnik a living room tournament is good enough
>>>>for play after the game 1 blitz game against Vladimir Kramnik :-))
>>>>
>>>>What thinking the members of CCC.
>>>>I wonder if the most member have an other opinion.
>>>
>>>Time for a poll.
>>
>>Hi Ed,
>>
>>yes I thinking about this for hours :-)
>>
>>>>What thinking the programmer of Junior, Fritz, Gandalf, The King, Rebel, Hiarcs,
>>>>Nimzo, Shredder, Tiger !
>>>>
>>>>Yes Christophe, Ed, Amir what do you think:
>>>
>>>Shredder, hard to ignore since its impressive comp-comp programmer tournament
>>>victories;
>>>Fritz, self understood;
>>>Junior, got a TPR of 2700 last year in Dortmund I believe, hard to ignore too;
>>>Tiger, probably the strongest at the moment;
>>>Rebel, undefeated in each human-comp match it played.
>>
>>This is all right !
>>But you will play against a World Champion and I think the World Champion will
>>play against the Computer Chess World Champion and Shredder is World Champion
>>from 1996, 1999, 2000 !!
>>
>>Ed, all programmers which can`t beat Shredder in a WM have not a chance to say I
>>will play against Kramnik. All this programmer must say ... Shredder ist World
>>Champion and must play against Kramnik.
>
>Yes, you have a serious point no doubt.
>
>But I hope you will understand I am a bit biased when the topic is about
>Tiger and Rebel. On the other hand my claims about Tiger (probably the
>strongest) and Rebel (undefeated in human-comp matches) remains true.
>
>Yussupov, Anand, v/d Wiel, ring a bell :-)
>
>Problem of the raised question is that no one knows for sure which program
>has the best chances against Kramnik. If that was clear we would not have
>this discussion and that program should play Kramnik, IMHO.
>
>Ed

Ed,

I agreed with you in the following point:
Rebel is a program with super results against grandmasters. The playing style
from Rebel is not very easy for a human player. All this is right and I say more
... I saw enough games from Rebel where I must say ... Super ED !

Also when I see results from other programs against grandmasters.

In this point I agreed full with you !!
Rebel is very strong against human player, you make here a very good work in the
last years.

But ...
We have not see enough games from Shredder or Gandalf or Hiarcs against
gradmasters. Also Hiarcs and I think clearly also Chess Tiger have a good chance
to play very good games against Kramnik or an other top player.

Ed,
I read here a very good idea that one or two grandmasters playing against the
best programs long matches. I think not easy to find 2-3 grandmasters for this
action. In combination with the WM 2001 (more interesting as a tourney from a
privat person --- my critic is not a critic to Enrique, I think he will also
make the best ---) we can solved the problem.

I think the best way to found a good deal for all is when the programmers find
here good way.

For me is clear:
I wish me a match ...

Shredder - Kramnik

Shredder won all important tourneys and this is reason enough to say Shredder
must play.

Best
Frank

>
>
>>This is fair and I hope the TOP programmers building this opinion or we have in
>>the near future also 2 Computer Chess World Champions or 3 or 4 ?
>>
>>Best
>>Frank
>>
>>>Most honest thing is to have a play-off.
>>>
>>>If that is feasible is another matter.
>>>
>>>Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>>Do you think I will play vs. Vladimir Kramnik or do you think no Shredder must
>>>>play against Vladimir Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>Best
>>>>Frank



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