Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 16:31:18 04/14/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 14, 2001 at 17:38:12, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >On April 14, 2001 at 17:10:38, Ed Schröder wrote: > >>On April 14, 2001 at 12:54:32, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >> >>>On April 14, 2001 at 07:37:13, Ed Schröder wrote: >>> >>>>On April 14, 2001 at 06:31:18, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hello, >>>>> >>>>>it is a very interesting match. >>>>>World Champion Vladimir Kramnik vs. Computer World Champion 1996, 1999, 2000 and >>>>>IPCCC Champion 2000, 2001 Shredder. >>>>> >>>>>I don`t believe that a winner from a living room tournament can play against WM >>>>>Vladmir Kramnik. The "Donald Duck" qualifikation in a "Micky Mouse" tournament >>>>>is not interesting. >>>>> >>>>>Compare to: >>>>>Frank Quisinsky play a WinBoard tourney at home and the winner can play against >>>>>Kasparov :-)) >>>>> >>>>>Shredder won all important tournaments and I think it is not a question which >>>>>program can / must play against Vladimir Kramnik. >>>>> >>>>>The question for me is now: >>>>>If Enrique play a quallification tournament I can`t believe that the TOP >>>>>programmer will start on this tournament. In the regular tournaments no program >>>>>can beat Shredder after now 33 games. So I think for the top programmers is also >>>>>clear which program must play against Vladimir Kramnik. >>>>> >>>>>Now we will see ... >>>>>I lose my interest on computer chess if I see that Shredder can`t not play >>>>>directly against Vladimir Kramnik. >>>>> >>>>>But interesting is: >>>>>After the big event Shredder vs. Kramnik a living room tournament is good enough >>>>>for play after the game 1 blitz game against Vladimir Kramnik :-)) >>>>> >>>>>What thinking the members of CCC. >>>>>I wonder if the most member have an other opinion. >>>> >>>>Time for a poll. >>> >>>Hi Ed, >>> >>>yes I thinking about this for hours :-) >>> >>>>>What thinking the programmer of Junior, Fritz, Gandalf, The King, Rebel, Hiarcs, >>>>>Nimzo, Shredder, Tiger ! >>>>> >>>>>Yes Christophe, Ed, Amir what do you think: >>>> >>>>Shredder, hard to ignore since its impressive comp-comp programmer tournament >>>>victories; >>>>Fritz, self understood; >>>>Junior, got a TPR of 2700 last year in Dortmund I believe, hard to ignore too; >>>>Tiger, probably the strongest at the moment; >>>>Rebel, undefeated in each human-comp match it played. >>> >>>This is all right ! >>>But you will play against a World Champion and I think the World Champion will >>>play against the Computer Chess World Champion and Shredder is World Champion >>>from 1996, 1999, 2000 !! >>> >>>Ed, all programmers which can`t beat Shredder in a WM have not a chance to say I >>>will play against Kramnik. All this programmer must say ... Shredder ist World >>>Champion and must play against Kramnik. >> >>Yes, you have a serious point no doubt. >> >>But I hope you will understand I am a bit biased when the topic is about >>Tiger and Rebel. On the other hand my claims about Tiger (probably the >>strongest) and Rebel (undefeated in human-comp matches) remains true. >> >>Yussupov, Anand, v/d Wiel, ring a bell :-) >> >>Problem of the raised question is that no one knows for sure which program >>has the best chances against Kramnik. If that was clear we would not have >>this discussion and that program should play Kramnik, IMHO. >> >>Ed > >Ed, > >I agreed with you in the following point: >Rebel is a program with super results against grandmasters. The playing style >from Rebel is not very easy for a human player. All this is right and I say more >... I saw enough games from Rebel where I must say ... Super ED ! > >Also when I see results from other programs against grandmasters. > >In this point I agreed full with you !! >Rebel is very strong against human player, you make here a very good work in the >last years. > >But ... >We have not see enough games from Shredder or Gandalf or Hiarcs against >gradmasters. Also Hiarcs and I think clearly also Chess Tiger have a good chance >to play very good games against Kramnik or an other top player. > >Ed, >I read here a very good idea that one or two grandmasters playing against the >best programs long matches. I think not easy to find 2-3 grandmasters for this >action. In combination with the WM 2001 (more interesting as a tourney from a >privat person --- my critic is not a critic to Enrique, I think he will also >make the best ---) we can solved the problem. > >I think the best way to found a good deal for all is when the programmers find >here good way. I agree with the idea. Invite GM John v/d Wiel, GM Jeroen Piket and GM Seirawan (the famous AEGON comp killers), invite 5-6 chess programs too, let them play a small tournament. The best may play Kramnik. Programmers have all things in their own control, the operator, the hardware and book preparation. For that scenario I am happy to put the needed $5000 on the table. Ed >For me is clear: >I wish me a match ... > >Shredder - Kramnik > >Shredder won all important tourneys and this is reason enough to say Shredder >must play. > >Best >Frank > >> >> >>>This is fair and I hope the TOP programmers building this opinion or we have in >>>the near future also 2 Computer Chess World Champions or 3 or 4 ? >>> >>>Best >>>Frank >>> >>>>Most honest thing is to have a play-off. >>>> >>>>If that is feasible is another matter. >>>> >>>>Ed >>>> >>>> >>>>>Do you think I will play vs. Vladimir Kramnik or do you think no Shredder must >>>>>play against Vladimir Kramnik. >>>>> >>>>>Best >>>>>Frank
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