Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 16:20:31 04/16/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 16, 2001 at 16:24:46, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On April 16, 2001 at 14:58:08, Chris Taylor wrote: > >>On April 16, 2001 at 14:14:31, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On April 16, 2001 at 13:21:21, Chris Taylor wrote: >>> >>>>Let the single chip programs play. If confidence is so high that they are not >>>>good enough, then fine. They are swept aside! But at least they have had their >>>>chance! Ed has got a good program, so Does Christophe. Not to mention a score >>>>of other programs, that given the chance to play, will at least be there! To >>>>exclude them from the start of the race, is strange. Unless of course it has >>>>all been decided. Hows' that for a selective search? >>>>If the likes of Rebel Century or The Tigers, fail to qualify, at least you will >>>>have the "Strongest" to go on and play Kramnik. And the people who say they were >>>>not strong enough, will be able to say "Told you so" If one of the single chip >>>>programs does win through, it will be because they had the opportunity >>>>to take part. >>>> >>>>Chris Taylor >>> >>> >>>I totally disagree. There is exactly _one_ program that should be playing >>>Kramnik. Shredder. Shredder has won all of the recent computer chess >>>tournaments. It is the current world champion. There is _absolutely_ no >>>reason to suggest that a playoff for the right to play Kramnik is needed. In >>>fact, the suggestion is really insulting to SMK and Shredder. If a program >>>didn't participate in the last WMCCC event, then I conclude that Shredder is >>>better and the author was afraid to participate and lose. And by doing that, >>>he gave up the opportunity to take part in this match. >>> >>>I don't understand why there is _any_ sort of playoff under discussion, other >>>than it is politically/marketing related. yes a newer program might be a bit >>>better than the older Shredder that won the last WMCCC. But the new Shredder >>>could well be better than that. closed-door back room tournaments are _not_ >>>the way to handle this. >>> >>>The idea is embarassing, to say the least. When we won the 1983 WCCC event, >>>nobody questioned who should play David Levy that year. The same logic should >>>apply now, and SMK/Shredder should play, whether he uses a 486/33 or an 8-way >>>xeon/900. >>> >>>Seems that commercial computer chess companies are just as bloodthirsty now as >>>they were 20 years ago. And have just as few principles now as then. >> >>My only concern was the exclusion of certain programs, simply because they limp >>on one leg? >> >>I agree with you, that Shredder is World Champ, and should shoot for Kramnik! >>Since it appears that this will not happen? Sadly, a tounament will be played, >>the deed is done. But only for the exclusive few? To all the rest, not even a >>look in. Strange how Shredder can be let down, as well? >> >>Just me 10 penneth >> >>Chris Taylor > > >Just goes to show that the world isn't always fair. :( I generally try >to remember such things, and at some point, the "other side" will need some >help. But not from me. I can't believe any of this mess is happening. I >would hope the _authors_ of the programs would do the right thing themselves >and simply say "my program won't participate, this is a right earned by >Shredder and it is Shredder or nothing..." Of course publicity is very good for the program playing Kramnik: "it played kramnik so it gotta be good". But when Kasparov left FIDE i remember fide organized a match for the world championship between Timman and Karpov. Timman says now: "this was a big joke match, i didn't have a single chance and that was already clear long before the match preparations had even started". Kramnik would even win blindfolded from a passive program like shredder. Setting it to more aggressive parameters is not going to help either as Kramnik has a very positional style, which compared to the computerish style of Kasparov, is also from psychical viewpoint a big pro for Kramnik. Shredder won all its world titles because programs make so easy positional mistakes either in opening or endgame. For the same reason as shredder has won its world titles i win with my poor 2281 regurarly still from programs. Amazing but true i have a 100% score in games of 2 hours and less. At 15 0 and 15 15 levels i do nowadays worse as some years ago as nowadays books are better as they were, but still win regurarly games. Anyway drawing is quite easy usually. 15 15 level against kramnik i would get a simple 0% score whatever the number of games we play... The whole match is going to be one big joke if shredder plays as from all programs which i heart the names from so far only tiger would have a smaller chance from as Shredder has. Nevertheless it is a FACT that shredder has won several worldtitles, and it is a FACT that Friedel talked for hours with Weiner during the IPCCC2001 tournament. For 2 persons who have sued each other companies zillions of times it is very uncommon to talk for hours with each other. If christophe now is going to cry then my counter question is: why did ed schroeder against v/d wiel use Rebel instead of Tiger? Your own salesman is not even using Tiger to play humans man! Anyway, whoever plays Kramnik; it is GOOD that there is a more or less serious match computer-human again after so many years. For that we can definitely thank BrainGames. Without them it's questionable whether a match would get organized. As there is at least 1 commercial chesscompany going to playing here i bet that this time internet live coverage of kramnik-computer is going to be way better.
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