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Subject: Re: Support 4 single chip chess v Kramnik

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 12:04:15 04/17/01

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On April 17, 2001 at 09:57:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 17, 2001 at 05:52:26, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On April 17, 2001 at 00:15:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On April 16, 2001 at 23:03:49, Chessfun wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 22:39:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 16:39:37, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 16:24:46, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Just goes to show that the world isn't always fair.  :(  I generally try
>>>>>>>to remember such things, and at some point, the "other side" will need some
>>>>>>>help.  But not from me.  I can't believe any of this mess is happening.  I
>>>>>>>would hope the _authors_ of the programs would do the right thing themselves
>>>>>>>and simply say "my program won't participate, this is a right earned by
>>>>>>>Shredder and it is Shredder or nothing..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That would indeed be a nice gesture and in compliance with tournament results as
>>>>>>you mention. But I seriously doubt that the invited programs still left will
>>>>>>miss this golden opportunity for publicity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mogens.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Let's see if any have the courage to stand up (or sit down) and do what
>>>>>is right.  I doubt it, but I might be surprised...
>>>>
>>>>In all these posts in favor of Shredder you are making, you are forgetting
>>>>one fact. They have been trying to negotiate for three months and have failed.
>>>>
>>>>What do you do when you can't reach agreement on terms? you look elsewhere,
>>>>which is exactly what has happened.
>>>>
>>>>Also who says this has to be billed as the World Champion (Human) v The world
>>>>Champion (Computer)? As I understand it they wish to play a match with the
>>>>strongest computer program, there was no requrement that a known strongest
>>>>already existed.
>>>>
>>>>Sarah.
>>>
>>>I think that the "strongest" program is quite obvious.  The ACM events
>>>are played under controlled conditions with (generally) the authors or a
>>>competent representative present to run the engines.  Shredder has won
>>>everything for the last 2-3 years...
>>>
>>>If SMK couldn't agree to terms, then I would agree that Kramnik should
>>>"move on" and pick another program.  However, I suspect that the "sticking
>>>point" was nothing more than "How much will you pay me to play the match?"
>>>And I don't see why a "rich company" should get to replace a "poor programmer"
>>>just due to wealth...  The ICCA titles _do_ mean something, since the ICCA is
>>>associated with FIDE and has sanctioning rights for the WCCC and WMCCC titles
>>>which are the only _official_ titles in computer chess.
>>
>>But the point Sarah is making is that the latest news from Millenium is that
>>they have said no. It means Shredder put itself out of the game. More: the
>>next "world championship" (as they call it) now is played between 2 programs.
>>
>>This is a laughable situation, softly speaking.
>>
>>Ed
>
>
>Supposed _I_ set up a tournament to choose the program to play?  And then
>suppose _I_ said "if you want in, send me $50,000 to enter your program."??

I would negotiate with you a lower the price :-)

Seriously, a play-off costs money anyway so I don't have a problem
with a reasonable entry fee.


>Would you enter even if you _knew_ Rebel xx was the best in the world?  And
>risk that kind of money to get in knowing that one game can be lost due to a
>bad book line or bug?
>
>Charging an entry fee is a bit of a joke, IMHO.

No, the ICCA does the same. Professionals pay more than amateurs, a fair
system.


>It means the deeper your pockets, the better your chances...

Nothing new under the sun, see the ICCA tournamnets.

- entry fee(s)
- plain ticket(s)
- hotel costs
- new hardware
- time (holidays)

Amateur or professional, it will cost you.

Ed



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