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Subject: Re: Latest millenium news?

Author: Sandro Necchi

Date: 23:08:29 04/17/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 17, 2001 at 16:18:06, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On April 17, 2001 at 13:43:08, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>
>>On April 17, 2001 at 02:18:01, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On April 16, 2001 at 02:22:16, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 14:56:41, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 12:42:05, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 09:38:15, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 03:05:47, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 14, 2001 at 21:11:41, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On April 14, 2001 at 18:06:44, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hello Christophe,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>the first, a good answere !
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I have already given my point of view on this issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is right.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>In short:
>>>>>>>>>>>1) I still do not understand the arbitrary choice of Deep Fritz, Deep Junior and
>>>>>>>>>>>Deep Shredder
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I agreed full with you !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That isn't what I've been reading till now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>2) Why is the winner of such a closed tournament supposed to perform the best
>>>>>>>>>>>against a player of a totally different kind?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Also this is right !
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>But which qualification is better as all the tourneys which Shredder won ?
>>>>>>>>>>We have no a better compare !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If we look at the facts forget all thse other titles you keep claiming Frank,
>>>>>>>>>Shredder only won one as a SMP machine. So, you have a program that should play
>>>>>>>>>after winning one 10 round or so tourney?.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Shredder tournament version won all the tournaments since 1999! No other
>>>>>>>>tournament version did the same. These are facts, the rest are words.
>>>>>>>>Also you do not have our latest version. How can you know how strong is Deep
>>>>>>>>Shredder now?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sandro Necchi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I do not have either the latest Deep Fritz or Deep Junior version....same thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you won't comply with the stated rules anyway and the others will, then you
>>>>>>>automatically in this case disqualify yourself so regardless of how much better
>>>>>>>the current version is to the released version it's mute.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think you are disqualifying the world champion title.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>that's all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sandro
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually I couldn't care who the World Champion was. I want to see the strongest
>>>>>possible Computer v Humans play.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, because you do not work for one year to win a tournament and so you do not
>>>>know what it means!
>>>>
>>>>How can you find out which is the best program?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Let the SSDF test it. You'll have a pretty good idea after some weeks.
>>
>>If you do not recognize the legitimacy of the ICCA World title you should not be
>>allowed to enter your program in such event. Or better you should not enter it
>>as your choice.
>
>
>
>I recognize it for what it is. It's a nice event and it was a pleasure to
>participate everytime I did.
>
>But you have to be realistic and realize it's true reliability.
>
>
>
>
>
>>SSDF is something else.
>>
>>In a ICCA tournament the programs are operated by the programmer which knows the
>>best variations to play, so the performance is optimal.
>>You are mentioning SSDF only because you did not win this tournament.
>>I am a ICCA memeber since 1987 and I always recognized the winner. So this means
>>in most cases not myself since I won only 2 times (1995 and 2000).
>>
>>It is too easy to say this is important when you win and not important when you
>>do not win!!
>>Sorry I am not like you!!
>
>
>
>
>I'm very consistent very my opinion about the ICCA tournaments and the SSDF.
>
>The SSDF gives much more reliable results. Period.
>
>I say today that the SSDF is more important, and I do not top the list. I don't
>know if I will top it again some day, but I repeat that I think that the SSDF
>list is the real barometer in computer chess.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>How many games are needed?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>This can be decided mathematically. There are standard formulas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>No programmer would let you have their F1 version to test.
>>>
>>>
>>>When I release a version of my program it is the best that I have at that time.
>>>Isn't it the same with Shredder?
>>
>>Of course it is.
>>
>>>
>>>So where is the problem?
>>
>>The legimacy of the ICCA world title!!
>>if there is no legimacy then there is no reason to held such event!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>These are the ones that will be used in such event!
>>>
>>>
>>>The programmers release the best they have. They do not keep the best version
>>>secret.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>So since it is not possible to find out what you are asking,
>>>
>>>
>>>I would say it is possible but your company (correct me if I'm wrong) has
>>>decided to make it impossible for the SSDF to publish the true rating of
>>>Shredder.
>>
>>You are wrong and you know it! Read the full story if you do not have enough
>>memory.
>
>
>
>
>I think you have a selective memory. Weiner initiated all the mess with the
>SSDF. He tried to manipulate the SSDF and prevent them to publish the results of
>Shredder, so he is the responsible of what happened.

Maybe Weiner initiated, but surely other people contributed!
The faults are not aways in one side!
>
>At the time Genius was on top of the SSDF and Genius was one of the product he
>was selling, he had no problem with the SSDF. For years. Strange.
>
Anyway, Shredder is out since we have refuted the proposed conditions and I
fully agree with this!
You can partecipate to a play-off. I am not against this but we will not as we
do not agree to it. This also was not the main problem, as you know.

Sandro
>
>    Christophe



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