Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 23:08:29 04/17/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 17, 2001 at 16:18:06, Christophe Theron wrote: >On April 17, 2001 at 13:43:08, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On April 17, 2001 at 02:18:01, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On April 16, 2001 at 02:22:16, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>> >>>>On April 15, 2001 at 14:56:41, Chessfun wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 12:42:05, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 09:38:15, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 03:05:47, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On April 14, 2001 at 21:11:41, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On April 14, 2001 at 18:06:44, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hello Christophe, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>the first, a good answere ! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I have already given my point of view on this issue. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>This is right. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>In short: >>>>>>>>>>>1) I still do not understand the arbitrary choice of Deep Fritz, Deep Junior and >>>>>>>>>>>Deep Shredder >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I agreed full with you ! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>That isn't what I've been reading till now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>2) Why is the winner of such a closed tournament supposed to perform the best >>>>>>>>>>>against a player of a totally different kind? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Also this is right ! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>But which qualification is better as all the tourneys which Shredder won ? >>>>>>>>>>We have no a better compare ! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>If we look at the facts forget all thse other titles you keep claiming Frank, >>>>>>>>>Shredder only won one as a SMP machine. So, you have a program that should play >>>>>>>>>after winning one 10 round or so tourney?. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Shredder tournament version won all the tournaments since 1999! No other >>>>>>>>tournament version did the same. These are facts, the rest are words. >>>>>>>>Also you do not have our latest version. How can you know how strong is Deep >>>>>>>>Shredder now? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do not have either the latest Deep Fritz or Deep Junior version....same thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If you won't comply with the stated rules anyway and the others will, then you >>>>>>>automatically in this case disqualify yourself so regardless of how much better >>>>>>>the current version is to the released version it's mute. >>>>>> >>>>>>I think you are disqualifying the world champion title. >>>>>> >>>>>>that's all. >>>>>> >>>>>>Sandro >>>>> >>>>>Actually I couldn't care who the World Champion was. I want to see the strongest >>>>>possible Computer v Humans play. >>>> >>>>Yes, because you do not work for one year to win a tournament and so you do not >>>>know what it means! >>>> >>>>How can you find out which is the best program? >>> >>> >>> >>>Let the SSDF test it. You'll have a pretty good idea after some weeks. >> >>If you do not recognize the legitimacy of the ICCA World title you should not be >>allowed to enter your program in such event. Or better you should not enter it >>as your choice. > > > >I recognize it for what it is. It's a nice event and it was a pleasure to >participate everytime I did. > >But you have to be realistic and realize it's true reliability. > > > > > >>SSDF is something else. >> >>In a ICCA tournament the programs are operated by the programmer which knows the >>best variations to play, so the performance is optimal. >>You are mentioning SSDF only because you did not win this tournament. >>I am a ICCA memeber since 1987 and I always recognized the winner. So this means >>in most cases not myself since I won only 2 times (1995 and 2000). >> >>It is too easy to say this is important when you win and not important when you >>do not win!! >>Sorry I am not like you!! > > > > >I'm very consistent very my opinion about the ICCA tournaments and the SSDF. > >The SSDF gives much more reliable results. Period. > >I say today that the SSDF is more important, and I do not top the list. I don't >know if I will top it again some day, but I repeat that I think that the SSDF >list is the real barometer in computer chess. > > > > > >>>>How many games are needed? >>> >>> >>> >>>This can be decided mathematically. There are standard formulas. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>No programmer would let you have their F1 version to test. >>> >>> >>>When I release a version of my program it is the best that I have at that time. >>>Isn't it the same with Shredder? >> >>Of course it is. >> >>> >>>So where is the problem? >> >>The legimacy of the ICCA world title!! >>if there is no legimacy then there is no reason to held such event!! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>These are the ones that will be used in such event! >>> >>> >>>The programmers release the best they have. They do not keep the best version >>>secret. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>So since it is not possible to find out what you are asking, >>> >>> >>>I would say it is possible but your company (correct me if I'm wrong) has >>>decided to make it impossible for the SSDF to publish the true rating of >>>Shredder. >> >>You are wrong and you know it! Read the full story if you do not have enough >>memory. > > > > >I think you have a selective memory. Weiner initiated all the mess with the >SSDF. He tried to manipulate the SSDF and prevent them to publish the results of >Shredder, so he is the responsible of what happened. Maybe Weiner initiated, but surely other people contributed! The faults are not aways in one side! > >At the time Genius was on top of the SSDF and Genius was one of the product he >was selling, he had no problem with the SSDF. For years. Strange. > Anyway, Shredder is out since we have refuted the proposed conditions and I fully agree with this! You can partecipate to a play-off. I am not against this but we will not as we do not agree to it. This also was not the main problem, as you know. Sandro > > Christophe
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