Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 10:42:20 04/19/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 19, 2001 at 09:27:29, Chessfun wrote: >On April 19, 2001 at 01:01:39, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On April 18, 2001 at 18:45:56, Chessfun wrote: >> >>>On April 17, 2001 at 16:02:53, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>> >>>>On April 17, 2001 at 14:42:44, Chessfun wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 13:19:19, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 09:09:09, Wayne Lowrance wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 07:01:17, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 02:42:18, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 02:15:27, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 20:02:02, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 03:31:12, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 02:46:59, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 02:13:32, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 14:50:33, Ed Schröder wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 03:05:47, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder tournament version won all the tournaments since 1999! No other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tournament version did the same. These are facts, the rest are words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Also you do not have our latest version. How can you know how strong is Deep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Sandro, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I have read Deep Blue has been invited too. What should happen if the DB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>people say yes and want to play Kramnik. Should we say: since DB has beaten >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kasparov DB is the real and only candidate? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Ed, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>no, I think only commercial program version like our should be used. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>your 2 programs (Rebel and Chess Tiger) should be included in the list too, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>I am not the one that decides. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro, I thought your opinion was that Shredder was the only candidate?. >>>>>>>>>>>>>The above would indicate otherwise. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>No, if only one program should match Kramnik this is Shredder because it is the >>>>>>>>>>>>world champion. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Then it must be the version of Shredder which played in the 2000 WMCCC, on the >>>>>>>>>>>same hardware. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sorry I do not agree. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Because a newer version on a different hardware (in particular on a >>>>>>>>>>>multiprocessor computer) does NOT own any World title as far as I know. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>If you are mad because you did not win the Computer Chess World Championship is >>>>>>>>>>not my fault. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No, I'm not mad Sandro. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Good to hear. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I have won some tournaments with my program too, and I'm fine. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I know. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>You know, there is so much randomness involved in short tournaments, they do not >>>>>>>>>mean that much. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Yes, but to me it means a lot. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Since it is the only title recognized by ICCA, for me it is the most important >>>>>>>>>>one. So the best version of that program with the fastest hardware should be >>>>>>>>>>used. >>>>>>>>>>This is my opionion. Sorry. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>This is just your opinion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Not only mine. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I think that the best program of today should be used. Not just a program that >>>>>>>>>has won a short tournament last year and has been hiding away from the SSDF >>>>>>>>>then. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This is your opinion. Also which should be used: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The best against other chess programs or the best against kramnik? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The organizers of the tournament need the best program. I they fail to select >>>>>>>>>the best, the general audience will learn about this, and the disappointement >>>>>>>>>will be huge. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>No I think the audience want the world champion which is Shredder! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Not in my opinion. I think the main body of customers here would prefer to see >>>>>>>the current best program compete in the tournament, I would like to see a >>>>>>>candidates tourny decide who plays. I will be very angry should it turn out that >>>>>>>Shreddar be selected without having played against any sort of candidates match, >>>>>>>even if it is only deeps Fritz, Junior. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I have purchased most all of the chess programs, it is sort of a hobby to me. I >>>>>>>am way to old to improve my chess (72), I just enjoy watching the lil buggers go >>>>>>>at it. SSDF to me is the ultimate measure of comp chess playing strength. I >>>>>>>trust them. >>>>>>>Shreader is the only program I have not purchased and do not plan to purchase. >>>>>>>Why ?. Because of the suspicious marketing driven behavior of avoiding to >>>>>>>compete in the most important yardstick for measuring computer chess strength, >>>>>>>the SSDF. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I would be very comfortable should Shreader come out the winner of a candidates >>>>>>>tournament and represent the digital lil buggers. >>>>>>>That is my thought, only one voice, but it is mine >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Wayne >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Their money is not well invested if they do not make sure that the best program >>>>>>>>>plays. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>If Shredder is really the best, why did Weiner refuse to let the SSDF publish >>>>>>>>>its the results, and why did Weiner withdraw from the event when it learned that >>>>>>>>>Shredder would have to qualify against Deep Fritz and Deep Junior? >>>>>> >>>>>>We are the World Champion until the ICCA new tournament will be held and another >>>>>>program win the title. >>>>>>If we do not recognize such a title and event there is no reason to make such >>>>>>event anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Yes the more exclaimation marks the better. >>>>>That so clearly portrays your right? no? >>>> >>>>Sarah, >>>> >>>>the point is that they have not been able to bit us. All the rest are simply >>>>excuses!!! >>> >>>I have seen no excuses. Just people putting forward their points of view. >> >>my point of view is simple: >> >>It is not sure that kramnik it the strongest chess player, but he is the World >>Champion having defeated Kasparov. >> >>it is not sure Shredder is the strongest chess program today, but it is the >>World Champion. >> >>So the 2 world champion should play each other. > > >Wasn't that what they started negotiating in December 2000.? >Then you tell me why these negotiations didn't reach a match? I believe because someone wanted so (ChessBase?). > > >>If we need to find out which program is the strongest than it must play against >>the strongest chess player (Fide rating No. 1) > > >Any program playing Kasparov is fine with me. As is Shirov or some other >top human. > > >>Does this make sense or not? > >As a point of view sure. But as I said anyone is entitled one. No, I do not agree. I think Kramnik cannot aske the strongest chess program, because he is not the strongest chess player. Then in case another program than Shredder is selected and Kramnik win, how can someone tell the human chess player is still stronger that the strongest chess program if the current World Champion (Shredder) did not partecipate to this tournament? The same is true if the program wins (impossible for the way the match is organized). How can someone say the computers have passed the human players if the strongest one (Fide No. 1) did not play? So I think the only reasonable match is between the two World Champions since the own the same title in their category! Sandro > >Sarah.
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