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Subject: Re: Support 4 single chip chess v Kramnik

Author: Bertil Eklund

Date: 11:22:16 04/19/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 19, 2001 at 13:45:58, Uri Blass wrote:

>On April 19, 2001 at 11:45:30, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On April 19, 2001 at 05:22:46, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>>
>>>On April 18, 2001 at 20:26:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 18, 2001 at 18:11:28, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 15:12:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 13:54:59, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 13:40:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 10:25:33, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 09:57:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Supposed _I_ set up a tournament to choose the program to play?  And then
>>>>>>>>>>suppose _I_ said "if you want in, send me $50,000 to enter your program."??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Would you enter even if you _knew_ Rebel xx was the best in the world?  And
>>>>>>>>>>risk that kind of money to get in knowing that one game can be lost due to a
>>>>>>>>>>bad book line or bug?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Charging an entry fee is a bit of a joke, IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It means the deeper your pockets, the better your chances...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well, at least there's a refund for those that don't make it :-).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Seriously, can anyone blaim SMK for not handing over $5000 and Shredder to a
>>>>>>>>>third party for this socalled qualifier? I think not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mogens.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Let's try a different approach.  Let _me_ handle the qualification tournament.
>>>>>>>>Here are my rules:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Making posts as above "is a bit of a joke, IMHO" since you clearly hadn't
>>>>>>>even bothered reading the current rules well enough to know the $5,000.00
>>>>>>>was refunded to losing programs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What makes you conclude that?  I can read perfectly well.  But I would not
>>>>>>send $5,000.00 in no matter what, because I try to spend my money more wisely
>>>>>>than that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You wrote "risk that kind of money" as in if the program lost the money
>>>>>was forfeit. That wasn't the case as already posted by Bertil.
>>>>>No you change that to sending the money in..
>>>>
>>>>Do you get it back under _any_ circumstance?  No.  So you pay it and take
>>>>a chance on getting it back.   That is the classic definition of "risk" in
>>>>my Webster's...  Since there is a circumstance where I won't get it back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Any publicly released chess program can enter.  Including patches.  So Rebel
>>>>>>>>could enter 2 programs since Ed has (I think) released the original rebel plus
>>>>>>>>a patch this year.  I get to enter all 19 released versions of Crafty.  If those
>>>>>>>>are the only two entries, care to bet who is going to win?  Statistically one
>>>>>>>>of my 19 versions will win even if all are worse than either of Ed's two
>>>>>>>>versions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is what has happened if you include Deep Shredder, Deep Fritz, and Deep
>>>>>>>>Junior.  A trivia question:  Which chess distributor has the best chance of
>>>>>>>>winning that event?  :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It is called "stacking the deck in your favor."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hogwash. Tell that to Amir Ban. In your case above tell me that Amir
>>>>>>>wouldn't want to win as much as Stefan and that his odds of doing so
>>>>>>>are greater due to your "stacking the deck in your favor." theory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No.  But the "distributor" certainly has a big interest in having one of
>>>>>>"Its" engines as the competitor.  So it is not "hogwash" at all.  It is
>>>>>>plain marketing, front-to-back...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The distributor does yes. But how does the distributor stck the deck
>>>>>when the choices are made by two independant people?
>>>>
>>>>By having _two_ of his programs in the contest to _one_ from the opponents...
>>>>
>>>>Two programs have a greater probability of winning than one.
>>>>
>>>>IE we simply play 'high card wins'.  But I get two cards each time and you
>>>>get one.  Who wins the most?
>>>
>>>Hi!
>>>
>>>And you are sure that Chessbase is the distributor of Junior7 (X)?
>>>
>>>Bertil
>>
>>Probably. They do not have their own interface so they have little
>>chance of selling otherwise.
>>
>>I do not know what Weiner offers but i do not even want to know it,
>>it's going to be very little probably.
>>
>>What chessbase offers is a peanut of course. You can only get great programs
>>when programmers can fulltime work at it. Programmers earn when
>>working in a company around 50k$ to 100k$ if living in USA
>>a year if they're good. To make a chess
>>program strong you are a good programmer anyway, very little people can
>>make a chessprogram anyway.
>>
>>When Friedel talked about diep as engine under chessbase (that's
>>quite some time ago so i do not know whether they pay more nowadays,
>>but as far as i heart not a penny more) he was talking about 5000 or 10000
>>dmark, about 4000 us$ today (dollar is high now).
>>
>>Considering the thousands of hours work that are put in an engine on
>>average, that's like 1 us$ an hour.
>
>1$ for hour is better than nothing.
>Most programmers earn 0$ per hour so they do not develop chess programs in order
>to earn money.
>
>If they can earn money it is only a bonus.
>
>Uri
>>
>>So from that i can't even internet as i pay a dollar an hour for
>>internet already.
>>
>>I'm not sure how many countries there are on this world where a
>>programmer earns 1us$ an hour. Add to that that the sales of an engine
>>are probably (my own estimate) like 1/100 of what fritz sells
>>as it's so easy to copy a few unprotected .dll and .eng files
>
>The main reason for the fact that the sales of Fritz are bigger than sales of
>other programs like Nimzo is simply the fact that Fritz is better.
>
>I do not believe that 99% of the potential buyers of programs copy them.
>
>Uri

Hi!

I believe it has a lot to do with the database options.

Bertil



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