Author: Chessfun
Date: 22:15:22 04/19/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 19, 2001 at 13:42:20, Sandro Necchi wrote: >On April 19, 2001 at 09:27:29, Chessfun wrote: > >>On April 19, 2001 at 01:01:39, Sandro Necchi wrote: >> >>>On April 18, 2001 at 18:45:56, Chessfun wrote: >>> >>>>On April 17, 2001 at 16:02:53, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 14:42:44, Chessfun wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 13:19:19, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 09:09:09, Wayne Lowrance wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 07:01:17, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 02:42:18, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 02:15:27, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 20:02:02, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 03:31:12, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 02:46:59, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 02:13:32, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 14:50:33, Ed Schröder wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 03:05:47, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder tournament version won all the tournaments since 1999! No other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tournament version did the same. These are facts, the rest are words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Also you do not have our latest version. How can you know how strong is Deep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Sandro, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I have read Deep Blue has been invited too. What should happen if the DB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>people say yes and want to play Kramnik. Should we say: since DB has beaten >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kasparov DB is the real and only candidate? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Ed, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>no, I think only commercial program version like our should be used. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your 2 programs (Rebel and Chess Tiger) should be included in the list too, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I am not the one that decides. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro, I thought your opinion was that Shredder was the only candidate?. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>The above would indicate otherwise. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>No, if only one program should match Kramnik this is Shredder because it is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>world champion. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Then it must be the version of Shredder which played in the 2000 WMCCC, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>same hardware. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Sorry I do not agree. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Because a newer version on a different hardware (in particular on a >>>>>>>>>>>>multiprocessor computer) does NOT own any World title as far as I know. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>If you are mad because you did not win the Computer Chess World Championship is >>>>>>>>>>>not my fault. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>No, I'm not mad Sandro. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Good to hear. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I have won some tournaments with my program too, and I'm fine. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I know. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>You know, there is so much randomness involved in short tournaments, they do not >>>>>>>>>>mean that much. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Yes, but to me it means a lot. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Since it is the only title recognized by ICCA, for me it is the most important >>>>>>>>>>>one. So the best version of that program with the fastest hardware should be >>>>>>>>>>>used. >>>>>>>>>>>This is my opionion. Sorry. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>This is just your opinion. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Not only mine. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I think that the best program of today should be used. Not just a program that >>>>>>>>>>has won a short tournament last year and has been hiding away from the SSDF >>>>>>>>>>then. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>This is your opinion. Also which should be used: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The best against other chess programs or the best against kramnik? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>The organizers of the tournament need the best program. I they fail to select >>>>>>>>>>the best, the general audience will learn about this, and the disappointement >>>>>>>>>>will be huge. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No I think the audience want the world champion which is Shredder! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Not in my opinion. I think the main body of customers here would prefer to see >>>>>>>>the current best program compete in the tournament, I would like to see a >>>>>>>>candidates tourny decide who plays. I will be very angry should it turn out that >>>>>>>>Shreddar be selected without having played against any sort of candidates match, >>>>>>>>even if it is only deeps Fritz, Junior. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I have purchased most all of the chess programs, it is sort of a hobby to me. I >>>>>>>>am way to old to improve my chess (72), I just enjoy watching the lil buggers go >>>>>>>>at it. SSDF to me is the ultimate measure of comp chess playing strength. I >>>>>>>>trust them. >>>>>>>>Shreader is the only program I have not purchased and do not plan to purchase. >>>>>>>>Why ?. Because of the suspicious marketing driven behavior of avoiding to >>>>>>>>compete in the most important yardstick for measuring computer chess strength, >>>>>>>>the SSDF. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I would be very comfortable should Shreader come out the winner of a candidates >>>>>>>>tournament and represent the digital lil buggers. >>>>>>>>That is my thought, only one voice, but it is mine >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Wayne >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Their money is not well invested if they do not make sure that the best program >>>>>>>>>>plays. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>If Shredder is really the best, why did Weiner refuse to let the SSDF publish >>>>>>>>>>its the results, and why did Weiner withdraw from the event when it learned that >>>>>>>>>>Shredder would have to qualify against Deep Fritz and Deep Junior? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>We are the World Champion until the ICCA new tournament will be held and another >>>>>>>program win the title. >>>>>>>If we do not recognize such a title and event there is no reason to make such >>>>>>>event anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Yes the more exclaimation marks the better. >>>>>>That so clearly portrays your right? no? >>>>> >>>>>Sarah, >>>>> >>>>>the point is that they have not been able to bit us. All the rest are simply >>>>>excuses!!! >>>> >>>>I have seen no excuses. Just people putting forward their points of view. >>> >>>my point of view is simple: >>> >>>It is not sure that kramnik it the strongest chess player, but he is the World >>>Champion having defeated Kasparov. >>> >>>it is not sure Shredder is the strongest chess program today, but it is the >>>World Champion. >>> >>>So the 2 world champion should play each other. >> >> >>Wasn't that what they started negotiating in December 2000.? >>Then you tell me why these negotiations didn't reach a match? > >I believe because someone wanted so (ChessBase?). > >> >> >>>If we need to find out which program is the strongest than it must play against >>>the strongest chess player (Fide rating No. 1) >> >> >>Any program playing Kasparov is fine with me. As is Shirov or some other >>top human. >> >> >>>Does this make sense or not? >> >>As a point of view sure. But as I said anyone is entitled one. > >No, I do not agree. You don't agree what? that anyone is entitled to a point of view? >I think Kramnik cannot aske the strongest chess program, >because he is not the strongest chess player. He can ask for any program he chooses. I dare say the same for any human in the top 50 or so. >Then in case another program than Shredder is selected and Kramnik win, how can >someone tell the human chess player is still stronger that the strongest chess >program if the current World Champion (Shredder) did not partecipate to this >tournament? How can you tell even were Shredder to play Kramnik? have you proof that Shredder is stonger than other comp programs against humans? >The same is true if the program wins (impossible for the way the match is >organized). I am not sure that were Kramnik to lose it would be proclaimed that x program is better than all humans and computers. Who says that Kramnik is the best human for playing against computers? >How can someone say the computers have passed the human players if the strongest >one (Fide No. 1) did not play? How can they say it anyway unless there were a known human #1 against computers?. >So I think the only reasonable match is between the two World Champions since >the own the same title in their category! And as I said at the start, you are entitled to your point of view. Sarah.
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