Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 22:25:30 04/19/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 20, 2001 at 01:15:22, Chessfun wrote: >On April 19, 2001 at 13:42:20, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On April 19, 2001 at 09:27:29, Chessfun wrote: >> >>>On April 19, 2001 at 01:01:39, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>> >>>>On April 18, 2001 at 18:45:56, Chessfun wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 16:02:53, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 14:42:44, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 13:19:19, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 09:09:09, Wayne Lowrance wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 07:01:17, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 02:42:18, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 02:15:27, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 20:02:02, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 03:31:12, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 02:46:59, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 16, 2001 at 02:13:32, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 14:50:33, Ed Schröder wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 15, 2001 at 03:05:47, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder tournament version won all the tournaments since 1999! No other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tournament version did the same. These are facts, the rest are words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Also you do not have our latest version. How can you know how strong is Deep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Sandro, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I have read Deep Blue has been invited too. What should happen if the DB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>people say yes and want to play Kramnik. Should we say: since DB has beaten >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kasparov DB is the real and only candidate? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Ed, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>no, I think only commercial program version like our should be used. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your 2 programs (Rebel and Chess Tiger) should be included in the list too, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I am not the one that decides. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandro, I thought your opinion was that Shredder was the only candidate?. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The above would indicate otherwise. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, if only one program should match Kramnik this is Shredder because it is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>world champion. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Then it must be the version of Shredder which played in the 2000 WMCCC, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>same hardware. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Sorry I do not agree. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Because a newer version on a different hardware (in particular on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>multiprocessor computer) does NOT own any World title as far as I know. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>If you are mad because you did not win the Computer Chess World Championship is >>>>>>>>>>>>not my fault. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>No, I'm not mad Sandro. :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Good to hear. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I have won some tournaments with my program too, and I'm fine. :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I know. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>You know, there is so much randomness involved in short tournaments, they do not >>>>>>>>>>>mean that much. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Yes, but to me it means a lot. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Since it is the only title recognized by ICCA, for me it is the most important >>>>>>>>>>>>one. So the best version of that program with the fastest hardware should be >>>>>>>>>>>>used. >>>>>>>>>>>>This is my opionion. Sorry. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>This is just your opinion. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Not only mine. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I think that the best program of today should be used. Not just a program that >>>>>>>>>>>has won a short tournament last year and has been hiding away from the SSDF >>>>>>>>>>>then. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>This is your opinion. Also which should be used: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>The best against other chess programs or the best against kramnik? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>The organizers of the tournament need the best program. I they fail to select >>>>>>>>>>>the best, the general audience will learn about this, and the disappointement >>>>>>>>>>>will be huge. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>No I think the audience want the world champion which is Shredder! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Not in my opinion. I think the main body of customers here would prefer to see >>>>>>>>>the current best program compete in the tournament, I would like to see a >>>>>>>>>candidates tourny decide who plays. I will be very angry should it turn out that >>>>>>>>>Shreddar be selected without having played against any sort of candidates match, >>>>>>>>>even if it is only deeps Fritz, Junior. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I have purchased most all of the chess programs, it is sort of a hobby to me. I >>>>>>>>>am way to old to improve my chess (72), I just enjoy watching the lil buggers go >>>>>>>>>at it. SSDF to me is the ultimate measure of comp chess playing strength. I >>>>>>>>>trust them. >>>>>>>>>Shreader is the only program I have not purchased and do not plan to purchase. >>>>>>>>>Why ?. Because of the suspicious marketing driven behavior of avoiding to >>>>>>>>>compete in the most important yardstick for measuring computer chess strength, >>>>>>>>>the SSDF. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I would be very comfortable should Shreader come out the winner of a candidates >>>>>>>>>tournament and represent the digital lil buggers. >>>>>>>>>That is my thought, only one voice, but it is mine >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Wayne >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Their money is not well invested if they do not make sure that the best program >>>>>>>>>>>plays. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>If Shredder is really the best, why did Weiner refuse to let the SSDF publish >>>>>>>>>>>its the results, and why did Weiner withdraw from the event when it learned that >>>>>>>>>>>Shredder would have to qualify against Deep Fritz and Deep Junior? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>We are the World Champion until the ICCA new tournament will be held and another >>>>>>>>program win the title. >>>>>>>>If we do not recognize such a title and event there is no reason to make such >>>>>>>>event anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sandro Necchi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Yes the more exclaimation marks the better. >>>>>>>That so clearly portrays your right? no? >>>>>> >>>>>>Sarah, >>>>>> >>>>>>the point is that they have not been able to bit us. All the rest are simply >>>>>>excuses!!! >>>>> >>>>>I have seen no excuses. Just people putting forward their points of view. >>>> >>>>my point of view is simple: >>>> >>>>It is not sure that kramnik it the strongest chess player, but he is the World >>>>Champion having defeated Kasparov. >>>> >>>>it is not sure Shredder is the strongest chess program today, but it is the >>>>World Champion. >>>> >>>>So the 2 world champion should play each other. >>> >>> >>>Wasn't that what they started negotiating in December 2000.? >>>Then you tell me why these negotiations didn't reach a match? >> >>I believe because someone wanted so (ChessBase?). >> >>> >>> >>>>If we need to find out which program is the strongest than it must play against >>>>the strongest chess player (Fide rating No. 1) >>> >>> >>>Any program playing Kasparov is fine with me. As is Shirov or some other >>>top human. >>> >>> >>>>Does this make sense or not? >>> >>>As a point of view sure. But as I said anyone is entitled one. >> >>No, I do not agree. > >You don't agree what? that anyone is entitled to a point of view? Yes. > >>I think Kramnik cannot aske the strongest chess program, >>because he is not the strongest chess player. > >He can ask for any program he chooses. I dare say the same for any human >in the top 50 or so. No I do not agree and we should not accept this request. > >>Then in case another program than Shredder is selected and Kramnik win, how can >>someone tell the human chess player is still stronger that the strongest chess >>program if the current World Champion (Shredder) did not partecipate to this >>tournament? > >How can you tell even were Shredder to play Kramnik? have you proof that >Shredder is stonger than other comp programs against humans? No, but this is becoming a pure commercial thing and you can bet they will try to get the most from it. > >>The same is true if the program wins (impossible for the way the match is >>organized). > >I am not sure that were Kramnik to lose it would be proclaimed that x program >is better than all humans and computers. Who says that Kramnik is the best human >for playing against computers? Not me. > >>How can someone say the computers have passed the human players if the strongest >>one (Fide No. 1) did not play? > >How can they say it anyway unless there were a known human #1 against >computers?. It is not necessary to be no. 1 against computers. It is enough to be Fide no. 1. > > >>So I think the only reasonable match is between the two World Champions since >>the own the same title in their category! > >And as I said at the start, you are entitled to your point of view. Thanks. Sandro > >Sarah.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.