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Subject: Re: Hatred and its consequences

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 07:17:48 04/21/01

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On April 21, 2001 at 09:47:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 20, 2001 at 15:10:29, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>
>>Well, shame on you for a dreadful title.
>>
>>To the point: Shredder is as far as I am concerned still comp world champion,
>>whether or not he plays the qualifiers, and if he plays, whether or not he wins.
>>That being said, and at the risk of appearing dense, what does it have to do
>>with it ?
>>
>>It's not even clear why he's not playing. The news that his objections are being
>>addressed were ignored, if not by him then certainly by this forum.
>>
>>This newsgroup is crazy.
>>
>>Amir
>
>
>I think "greed" _is_ the issue.  Otherwise I can't imagine why program
>authors would not simply say "Hey, Shredder holds both the WMCCC and WCCC
>titles.  It certainly has earned the right to challenge/play Kramnik."
>
>Instead we have the present debacle where everyone (well, almost everyone)
>that sells a program is lining up or wanting to line up to qualify for a
>chance to play Kramnik.  I'd love to play him.  I could certainly put together
>a hardware system that would give me really good odds vs any microprogram that
>currently exists.  But as a charter member of the ICCA, I also respect the
>titles they award.  We _all_ used to respect these titles.  When we challenged
>Levy in 1984, we did so as the current WCCC champion.  When Hsu beat him in
>the late 80's, they did so holding both ACM titles.
>
>This nonsense of "the title is nearly a year old" doesn't cut it.  Until the
>next event, Shredder should be the choice.  And since he has been the choice
>for at least two years running, that should hold some weight.  It does for
>some.
>
>But apparently not for everybody.  If we continue down this childish course,
>then one month after a WMCCC or WCCC event, someone could begin to dispute
>the title with "but my program is now improved since that event and it is no
>longer clear that the current champion could beat me..."  Heck, this could be
>done one week (or one day) after the tournament ends.
>
>I guess the title means nothing today.  Which is a real shame for those of us
>that _started_ the ICCA to head off this kind of stuff and put a serious
>organization in place to handle such things...
>
>If it isn't about "greed" (as in publicity wanted for a specific program)
>then why aren't all the amateur programs lining up and demanding a shot?  As
>I said, given the right hardware I would be quite happy to play a match with
>_anybody_ and would be pretty sure I would win.  Yet _I_ think Shredder is
>the right program to play Kramnik.  Because he won the two tournaments I think
>are most important.
>
>I think that ignoring that is just a form of "sour grapes"...
>
>However, in looking back over the history of microcomputer chess tournaments,
>this _has_ been a pretty common theme.  I suppose that is why the older ACM
>events were more fun.  No commercial programs.  No odd stuff...


I think this is too one-sided.

I agree with you that world-champion vs world-champion is the way to go.

But.... since it has been decided elsewhere the match is about the "best
program" (which is always debatable) I think that some programmers have
the right to be become a bit greedy as you put it.

It makes quite a difference in fact it is the difference.

Ed



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