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Subject: Re: Update for results at fixed depth between Fritz and Tiger

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 14:26:52 04/23/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 23, 2001 at 15:39:22, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On April 23, 2001 at 15:00:23, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On April 23, 2001 at 13:46:02, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On April 23, 2001 at 02:43:23, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 23, 2001 at 02:17:26, Tanya Deborah wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 22, 2001 at 12:29:34, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 3)-Deep Fritz(depth 3) 16.5-3.5
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 4)-Deep Fritz(depth 4) 7.5-12.5
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 5)-Deep Fritz(depth 5) 13-7
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 6)-Deep Fritz(depth 6) 14-6
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 7)-Deep Fritz(depth 7) 13.5-6.5
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 8)-Deep Fritz(depth 8) 10.5-9.5
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 9)-Deep Fritz(depth 9) 14-6
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 10)-Deep Fritz(depth 10) 9.5-10.5
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 4)-Deep Fritz(depth 3) 17.5-2.5
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 5)-Deep Fritz(depth 4) 19-1
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 6)-Deep Fritz(depth 5) 18-2
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 7)-Deep Fritz(depth 6) 15-5
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 3)-Deep Fritz(depth 4) 6-14
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 4)-Deep Fritz(depth 5) 8-12(this result should be 12.5-7.5 but
>>>>>>deep fritz failed to mate because of having only part of the tablebases and the
>>>>>>engines agreed to a draw in a position that the evaluation was mate against
>>>>>>tiger).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 5)-Deep Fritz(depth 6) 7-13
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 6)-Deep Fritz(depth 7) 8-12
>>>>>>Tiger14(depth 7)-Deep Fritz(depth 8) 7-13
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The advantage of one ply seems to be very significant in the nunn match and you
>>>>>>can see that the side that searched deeper won in all the matches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Deep Fritz at depth X seems to be 100 about elo better than Tiger at depth X-1
>>>>>>when Tiger14 at depth X seems to be more than 200 elo better than Tiger14.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It means that at small depthes 1 ply is probably worth at least 150 elo rating
>>>>>>for the nunn match.
>>>>>>There is of course a significant statistical error and we need more games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>Very interesting Uri!
>>>>
>>>>Here are more results
>>>>Tiger14(depth 8)-Deep Fritz(depth 7) 14-6
>>>>Deep Fritz(depth 9)-Tiger14(depth 8) 12.5-7.5
>>>>Tiger14(depth 9)-Deep Fritz(depth 8) 8.5-1.5(this match was not finished because
>>>>I stopped it in the middle)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But how did you make that Fritz move when it is on depth4 or 5 ??
>>>>>I believe that many of this games (at depth 3,4,or5) take only a few seconds.
>>>>>Is this right?
>>>>
>>>>Correct games at these depthes takes only few seconds so I could finish the nunn
>>>>match at small depthes in few minutes.
>>>>
>>>>I have some more results at small depthes(this time of Gambittiger2 against Deep
>>>>Fritz
>>>>
>>>>Gambit2(depth 3)-Deep Fritz(depth 3) 8.5-11.5
>>>>Gambit2(depth 4)-Deep Fritz(depth 4) 10.5-9.5
>>>>Gambit2(depth 5)-Deep Fritz(depth 5) 13-7
>>>>Gambit2(depth 6)-Deep Fritz(depth 6) 12-8
>>>>
>>>>Gambit2(depth 3)-Deep Fritz(depth 4) 4.5-15.5
>>>>Gambit2(depth 4)-Deep Fritz(depth 3) 16.5-3.5
>>>>Gambit2(depth 4)-Deep Fritz(depth 5) 9.5-10.5
>>>>Gambit2(depth 5)-Deep Fritz(depth 4) 17-3
>>>>
>>>>You can see that the Deeper searcher at shallow depthes is always winning the
>>>>match if you use tiger and fritz.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If the program using a 8x procesor machine against Kramnink, see one ply more
>>>>>than the normal fast machine, how strong will be ?? in elo??
>>>>
>>>>I do not know.
>>>>
>>>>I believe in diminishing return and the results seem to suggest diminishing
>>>>return but I need more games to prove it stattistically.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>Tanya.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Go on Uri, that's interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>I will continue.
>>
>>Unfortunately I am not going to give more than few hours per day of computer
>>time for it because I use my computer for other purposes.
>>
>>No news from the last update.
>>
>>I think to include
>>Tiger14,Gambit2,Deep Fritz, Crafty at depth 3-10
>>
>>I think to play only matches between different programs when the difference
>>in depth is at most 3 and it is going to give for every player:
>>420 games for depth 6,7
>>360 games for depth 5,8
>>300 games for depth 4,9
>>240 games for depth 3,10
>>
>>This process may take some months because of the fact that I am not going to use
>>more than few hours per day and I do not promise to use the computer every day
>>for this purpose.
>>
>>I am afraid games when the difference in depth is more than 3 are going to end
>>often with the result 20-0 and this is the reason that I am not going to play
>>them(we already had 19-1 result when the difference was only 1).
>>
>>Other people probably can reproduce similiar results but not exactly the same
>>results because they probably do not have exactly the same set of tablebases
>>that I have.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>
>I think that a difference of 1 and 2 plies is more than enough to give
>significant results. You can save the additional work with 3 plies differences.
>
>I suggest that you do not use tablebases. TB are the same thing as an infinite
>search, so it breaks your rule of fixed depths.

I understand
Unfortunately I used tablebases in the first games so I need to repeat the games
that I did in order to be consistant.
Fortunately I did not play most of the games that are planned so I do not need
to repeat most of them.

I guess there is not going to be a big difference but I am going to do it.
I expect that not using tablebases is going to help the deeper searchers.

Uri



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