Author: Uri Blass
Date: 07:48:02 04/24/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 24, 2001 at 10:05:55, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On April 24, 2001 at 08:47:06, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On April 24, 2001 at 08:20:57, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On April 24, 2001 at 03:47:15, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>the best software that is not IBM. >>>> >>>>Suppose there is a match of 20 games at tournament time control >>>> >>>>I am interested to know how many people expect 20-0 for IBM >>>>How many people expect 19.5-.5?.... >>> >>>>If IBM expect to do better result then the average result that the public expect >>>>then they can earn something from playing a match of 20 games with Deep Blue. >>>> >>>>I believe that a part of the public who read the claim that kasparov played like >>>>an IM are not going to expect good result for IBM.> >>>>Uri >>> >>>First of all IBM would get out of book every game with -1.0 pawn >>>disadvantage (which is about the average of what Kure and Noomen >>>get in tournaments, sometimes they get out of book with mate in XXX even). >> >>I disagree. >> >>1)It is easy to avoid -1 pawn disadvantage by using a small book. >>It is also easy to get the opponent out of book (for example by lines like 1.c3 >>and 2.Qc2) > >>2)Kure and Noomen do not get +1.0 pawn advantage from the opening after every >>game > >Oh well says the beginner who never visited a world champ. > >Please visit a big tournament, or ask what the average score was of >Nimzo / Fritz out of book and Tiger. > >The average score from Tiger out of book in dutch open 2000 was +1.0, >world champs it was even worse. > >Please get a bit less stubborn and either analyze the games or take it >from someone who was there already for a lot of times. > >Each game one of those books, either Noomen or Kure, gets out of book >with a mate in XXX score against its opponent. > >That's not a joke. That's REALITY. > >Even that score not counted the other games the average is +1.0. > >Most games at a world champ you play against AMATEURS / weak commercials, >difference is very little between that. Basically defined as >basic income of chess is not enough to feed ones family from. > >Every programmer who joined these tournaments has EXPERIENCED this >problem. Programs aren't humans who FLEXIBLE can pick a new line >somewhere. > >I never manage to explain that problem to chessplayers, like >for example team members of mine. >They always laugh and say: "how can your opening book be at most 1900 >rated and the program way better as that? Must be EASY to make a 2500+ >book at home". > >It is NOT easy. All my teammembers share they play just one stupid opening. >One of them always plays ben-oni. The other plays always accelerated >dragon and so on. > >Recently one of the big criticizers (he 2347 rated) >i prepared a SINGLE line for at home, >i just took it from NCO99. I got out of book with black very well now. >10 moves later i was bigtime won and won the first pawn. > >Now IMAGINE the problem for a chessprogram if i use the NCO99 book where >many lines are already refuted from when playing Noomen and Kure nowadays... >...note i already win from all other progs easily > >If i one day entered the line then i must update it every week to not >get outbooked in a tournament, because old lines keep in the book of >course. I can't follow daily the latest novelties as published in the >latest books and issues of magazines. You do not need to follow the latest books. You only need to start soemthing like 1.c3 and 2.Qc2 and I do not see how you get negative score of -1 or worse out of book. If you do not want to get out of book early you also have no problem and you only need to build a small user book based on some rare lines that are not mistakes Example:you may include only 1.b3 for white. After 1.b3 you may include only 2.Bb2 You can continue in this way and only include one possible reply and not many possible replies for every move(you need many possible replies for the ssdf games because in the ssdf you need to learn from losing but you do not need it for tournaments). > >If you play a correspondence game, then you search at THIS moment for >new openingstheory to play at THIS moment in a game. > >Now that's just ONE openings line. Even with a small book >I need to be prepared to face thousands of opening lines. Suppose you >short before a tournament start 1000 correspondence games, how high is >the quality of the opening in those games? It is easy to avoid -1 score if this is the target. Uri
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