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Subject: Re: Gambit Tiger 2.0: 6 seconds on K6-2 450

Author: Christophe Theron

Date: 17:00:31 04/27/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 27, 2001 at 13:40:48, Uri Blass wrote:

>On April 27, 2001 at 12:43:56, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On April 27, 2001 at 02:44:13, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On April 26, 2001 at 19:09:02, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 26, 2001 at 16:19:10, Peter Berger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 26, 2001 at 15:29:16, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 25, 2001 at 17:31:10, Peter Berger wrote:
>>>>>>>It's similar when it is about proper implementation of draw rules btw . Offering
>>>>>>>draws is only allowed when you have showed your move ; claiming draw by
>>>>>>>repetition or 50 moves rule - this should be done by claiming draw saying : " I
>>>>>>>reach draw by playing blablabla . " - no program does this properly .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as I know you can claim a draw by repetition or 50 moves rules either
>>>>>>before or after you move.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As soon as the condition for the draw is met, you can claim it. The condition
>>>>>>can be met before you move, so you can claim a draw before you move.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Christophe
>>>>>
>>>>>OK ; let's get nerdish :
>>>>>
>>>>>Article 9: The drawn game
>>>>>
>>>>>9.1 A player can propose a draw after making a move on the chessboard. He must
>>>>>do so before stopping his own clock and starting his opponent's clock. An offer
>>>>>at any other time during play is still valid, but Article 12.5 must be
>>>>>considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer
>>>>>cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it
>>>>>orally, rejects it by making a move, or the game is concluded in some other way.
>>>>>
>>>>>The offer of a draw shall be noted by each player on his scoresheet with the
>>>>>symbol (=).
>>>>>
>>>>>9.2 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, when
>>>>>the same position, for at least the third time (not necessarily by repetition of
>>>>>moves)
>>>>>
>>>>>is about to appear, if he first writes his move on his scoresheet and declares
>>>>>to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or
>>>>>has just appeared.
>>>>>Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the
>>>>>move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and the
>>>>>possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same.
>>>>>Positions are not the same if a pawn could have been captured en passant or if
>>>>>the right to castle immediately or in the future has been changed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, if
>>>>>
>>>>>he writes on his scoresheet, and declares to the arbiter his intention to make a
>>>>>move which shall result in the last 50 moves having been made by each player
>>>>>without the movement of any pawn and without the capture of any piece, or
>>>>>the last 50 consecutive moves have been made by each player without the movement
>>>>>of any pawn and without the capture of any piece.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>9.4 If the player makes a move without having claimed the draw he loses the
>>>>>right to claim, as in Article 9.2 or 9.3, on that move .
>>>>>
>>>>>9.5 If a player claims a draw as in Article 9.2 or 9.3 he shall immediately stop
>>>>>both clocks. He is not allowed to withdraw his claim.
>>>>>
>>>>>If the claim is found to be correct the game is immediately drawn.
>>>>>If the claim is found to be incorrect, the arbiter shall deduct half of the
>>>>>claimant's remaining time up to a maximum of three minutes and add three minutes
>>>>>to the opponent's remaining time. Then the game shall continue and the intended
>>>>>move must be made.
>>>>>
>>>>>9.6 The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot
>>>>>occur by any possible series of legal moves, even with the most unskilled play.
>>>>>This immediately ends the game.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You are right - repeating the rules of chess is still useful though I think .
>>>>>There is a proper way of doing it ( the one I mentioned ) ; there are also some
>>>>>exceptions which are tolerated ( like the ones you mentioned ) and then there
>>>>>are the things which are simply not considered OK ( like the way all commercial
>>>>>programs who are able to offer draw except Gandalf do it ) .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well... I remember that I had to deal with this discussion already. At that time
>>>>I had read the rules again and concluded that the way computers do it was OK.
>>>>
>>>>Maybe I did not have the same rules as you (?!).
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, in case of a draw by repetition, if the game is drawn by repetition by
>>>>the last move of the opponent, then I can ALWAYS make another move that will
>>>>also be a draw by repetition.
>>>
>>>No you cannot always do it.
>>>Example:
>>>
>>>[D]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
>>>after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Ng1 Ng8 3.Nh3 Nf6 4.Ng1 Ng8 the position is a draw by third
>>>repetition but you cannot make a move in order to get third repetition after
>>>your move.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>
>>Argh... That's right.
>>
>>Then all chess programs do it wrong !?
>>
>>
>>
>>     Christophe
>
>No
>
>I know that the chess rules allow to claim a draw by repetition without doing a
>move if the same position repeated 3 times.
>
>see the or in 9.2
>
>"or has just appeared.
>Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the
>move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and the
>possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same."
>
>Uri



Yes, you are right.

I think I can't read anymore! :(

So chess programs do it the right way, period.

Do you read this, Peter?



    Christophe



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