Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 17:00:31 04/27/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 27, 2001 at 13:40:48, Uri Blass wrote: >On April 27, 2001 at 12:43:56, Christophe Theron wrote: > >>On April 27, 2001 at 02:44:13, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On April 26, 2001 at 19:09:02, Christophe Theron wrote: >>> >>>>On April 26, 2001 at 16:19:10, Peter Berger wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 26, 2001 at 15:29:16, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 25, 2001 at 17:31:10, Peter Berger wrote: >>>>>>>It's similar when it is about proper implementation of draw rules btw . Offering >>>>>>>draws is only allowed when you have showed your move ; claiming draw by >>>>>>>repetition or 50 moves rule - this should be done by claiming draw saying : " I >>>>>>>reach draw by playing blablabla . " - no program does this properly . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>As far as I know you can claim a draw by repetition or 50 moves rules either >>>>>>before or after you move. >>>>>> >>>>>>As soon as the condition for the draw is met, you can claim it. The condition >>>>>>can be met before you move, so you can claim a draw before you move. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Christophe >>>>> >>>>>OK ; let's get nerdish : >>>>> >>>>>Article 9: The drawn game >>>>> >>>>>9.1 A player can propose a draw after making a move on the chessboard. He must >>>>>do so before stopping his own clock and starting his opponent's clock. An offer >>>>>at any other time during play is still valid, but Article 12.5 must be >>>>>considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer >>>>>cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it >>>>>orally, rejects it by making a move, or the game is concluded in some other way. >>>>> >>>>>The offer of a draw shall be noted by each player on his scoresheet with the >>>>>symbol (=). >>>>> >>>>>9.2 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, when >>>>>the same position, for at least the third time (not necessarily by repetition of >>>>>moves) >>>>> >>>>>is about to appear, if he first writes his move on his scoresheet and declares >>>>>to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or >>>>>has just appeared. >>>>>Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the >>>>>move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and the >>>>>possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same. >>>>>Positions are not the same if a pawn could have been captured en passant or if >>>>>the right to castle immediately or in the future has been changed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, if >>>>> >>>>>he writes on his scoresheet, and declares to the arbiter his intention to make a >>>>>move which shall result in the last 50 moves having been made by each player >>>>>without the movement of any pawn and without the capture of any piece, or >>>>>the last 50 consecutive moves have been made by each player without the movement >>>>>of any pawn and without the capture of any piece. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>9.4 If the player makes a move without having claimed the draw he loses the >>>>>right to claim, as in Article 9.2 or 9.3, on that move . >>>>> >>>>>9.5 If a player claims a draw as in Article 9.2 or 9.3 he shall immediately stop >>>>>both clocks. He is not allowed to withdraw his claim. >>>>> >>>>>If the claim is found to be correct the game is immediately drawn. >>>>>If the claim is found to be incorrect, the arbiter shall deduct half of the >>>>>claimant's remaining time up to a maximum of three minutes and add three minutes >>>>>to the opponent's remaining time. Then the game shall continue and the intended >>>>>move must be made. >>>>> >>>>>9.6 The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot >>>>>occur by any possible series of legal moves, even with the most unskilled play. >>>>>This immediately ends the game. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>You are right - repeating the rules of chess is still useful though I think . >>>>>There is a proper way of doing it ( the one I mentioned ) ; there are also some >>>>>exceptions which are tolerated ( like the ones you mentioned ) and then there >>>>>are the things which are simply not considered OK ( like the way all commercial >>>>>programs who are able to offer draw except Gandalf do it ) . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Well... I remember that I had to deal with this discussion already. At that time >>>>I had read the rules again and concluded that the way computers do it was OK. >>>> >>>>Maybe I did not have the same rules as you (?!). >>>> >>>>Anyway, in case of a draw by repetition, if the game is drawn by repetition by >>>>the last move of the opponent, then I can ALWAYS make another move that will >>>>also be a draw by repetition. >>> >>>No you cannot always do it. >>>Example: >>> >>>[D]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1 >>>after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Ng1 Ng8 3.Nh3 Nf6 4.Ng1 Ng8 the position is a draw by third >>>repetition but you cannot make a move in order to get third repetition after >>>your move. >>> >>>Uri >> >> >> >>Argh... That's right. >> >>Then all chess programs do it wrong !? >> >> >> >> Christophe > >No > >I know that the chess rules allow to claim a draw by repetition without doing a >move if the same position repeated 3 times. > >see the or in 9.2 > >"or has just appeared. >Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the >move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and the >possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same." > >Uri Yes, you are right. I think I can't read anymore! :( So chess programs do it the right way, period. Do you read this, Peter? Christophe
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