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Subject: Re: About draws and chessprograms - a chessplayer's view

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 14:38:12 04/28/01

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On April 28, 2001 at 17:23:30, Peter Berger wrote:

>On April 28, 2001 at 15:00:51, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On April 28, 2001 at 12:57:13, Peter Berger wrote:
>>
><snip>
>>>And again : no commercial chessprogram does it properly !
>>>
>>>Do you read this , Christophe :-) ?
>>
>>
>>
>>Yes I have read this carefully, and as far as I know my chess program does not
>>behave incorrectly when it announces draw by repetition or draw by the 50 moves
>>rule.
>>
>>I'm not very concerned by the fact that the program should first write its move
>>on the scoresheet, and claim a draw without stopping the clock.
>>
>>My program either stops the clock and claims the draw, or makes its move, stop
>>the clock and claims the draw.
>>
>>It does not make any difference as long as the draw claim is correct. As far as
>>I know the arbiter cannot force the players to continue playing if the draw
>>claim is correct, so it does not matter if the clock as been stopped or not.
>
>Please understand that I would be the first one to agree that this is a very
>minor topic ; most of this is a design question I think . And the point I still
>can't understand at all is when you have the choice : why not simply implement
>it following the official rules of chess ?
>
>Let's start with the one you are not concerned by :
>
>a.) Draw offers
>
>The programs I know that _can_ make draw offers are the Chessbase ones (
>including your Tiger btw ) as the job is done by the GUI and Shredder 5 ( same
>design ) .
>
>Both simply do it in the wrong way . They always offer draw _instead_ of making
>a move .

You have the right to offer a draw when it is your turn to move without making a
move.

The opponent can ask you to play a move but it is not wrong to offer a draw when
it is your turn to move(programs should accept the reply I will answer only
after your move).

 It is not necessary to do it this way - it's simply bad design I think
>.
>
>There is _one_ program that does it correctly when playing under WinBoard :
>Gandalf ; currently I don't remember how Crafty does it .
>
>I hope when Tiger learns this it will do it correctly .
>
>b.) 3rd repetition/50 moves rule
>
>Programs do the strangest things here - a few days ago I observed the program
>"Der Bringer" - it claimed "draw by repetition" ( so far, so good ) but then it
>made a move blundering a queen .
>
>Again : either you claim draw or you make a move - not both .
>
>I agree to most of what you have written .
>
>But note - both : the 3rd repetition and the 50 moves rule are _optional_ . You
>can choose to claim draw _or_ you can choose to play on .
>
>Imagine the following situation : Tiger is up two queens but by a miracle the
>opponent can force a perpetual by chosing a very narrow path to escape . I don't
>think it makes any sense for Tiger to claim a draw by repetition here

I see nothing wrong with it if the opponent was smart enough to force tiger to
repeat the position 3 times then it is a waste of time to continue the game.

 - the only
>option you have to offer is one for the opponent to claim it .
>
>Or you have a KRB-KR ending with the bishop up - why should the program claim a
>draw by the 50 moves rule then ? This would be for the opponent to do .

This is about the strength of the program but I do not find it as a problem in
comp-comp games and it may be only a problem against humans at time trouble
because under normal conditions there is no chance that humans will miss the
fact that they can ask for a draw by the 50 move rule.

Uri



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