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Subject: Re: Open letter to prof. Irazoqui about the Braingames qualifier

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 08:11:46 04/29/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 29, 2001 at 11:03:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 29, 2001 at 05:42:42, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On April 29, 2001 at 05:08:37, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On April 29, 2001 at 04:01:32, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 29, 2001 at 03:39:53, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It seems clear why it wasn't invited to participate:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) The organizer is going to use a multiprocessor machine.
>>>>>2) Fritz and Junior run on a multiprocessor machine.
>>>>>3) Tiger is known to not run on such a machine.
>>>>>4) Tiger is very strong, but if it is stronger than Junior or Fritz, it's
>>>>>probably not stronger by much.
>>>>>5) A multiprocessor machine should produce a significant performance boost.
>>>>>6) It is hoped that the event will produce an "accurate" winner.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you allow these points, you can make a case that Tiger on a single processor
>>>>>can't be stronger than Junior or Fritz on a multi.
>>>
>>>>I understood that tiger can use more than one processor.
>>>
>>>
>>>I never understood that. I took it that one could be produced.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess that Tiger could earn less than Fritz or Junior because of the fact that
>>>>Christophe and Ed had not enough time to optimize tiger for more than one
>>>>processor but it still can earn something from more than one processor.
>>>
>>>
>>>Assuming they are within say 20 SSDF rating points of each other on
>>>equal machines which seems likely. It seems highly unlikely without
>>>proper debugging and testing that the above would be true. And an
>>>event such as this IMO is not the place for that testing/debugging.
>>
>>I believe that testing debugging can be done in a few days if the target is only
>>to be practically sure that it is better than the one processor version.
>
>Sorry, but you are badly wrong.  It takes _months_.  The bugs are hard to
>find.  They will only show up infrequently (not reproducible easily) and
>so forth.
>
>
>>
>>You only need to test it in games to see that there is no problem and to test it
>>in test position to see if the 2 processor version is faster than the one
>>processor version.
>
>Don't make statements until you _write_ one.  I finished Cray Blitz (the most
>recent parallel search algorithm) in 1988.  I found bugs for two years at
>_least_.  When I went from 2 to 4 processors new bugs showed up.  4 to 8?
>same thing.  8 to 16?  Yet again.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>You only needs to give the parallel version to play to see if there are problems
>>in games and few days are enough to get a enough games to be sure that bugs are
>>not common and usually do not happen in games.
>
>
>
>Suppose I told you I had bugs that would show up in a given position.  But
>only one of every 10,000 times the position was ran for 3 minutes?
>
>Your debugging idea makes me (as a software engineer) cringe.  You could play
>all day, every day, for a month, and still have major and serious bugs that you
>had not _seen_.

My point is not that you can avoid bugs but that I believe that you can have a
better version in a few weeks.

I do not say that the better version is optimized for using more than one
processor.

I read here that patzer did something productive about parallelizing(in that
case I understood that 2 processors were 1.2 times faster than 1 processor in
relatively a short time).

If you are 1.2 times faster and the bug happens only in 1 out of 100 games then
the new program earns something from 2 processors.

Uri



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