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Subject: Re: About draws and chessprograms - a chessplayer's view

Author: Peter Berger

Date: 14:16:29 04/29/01

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On April 29, 2001 at 15:54:58, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:

>On April 29, 2001 at 10:47:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On April 29, 2001 at 05:10:24, Peter Berger wrote:
>>
>
>[snip]
>
>>>In case the 3rd repetition position will be reached by a certain move it could
>>>say :
>>>
>>>" I intend to play 49. Rc8+ and claim draw by repetition ."
>>>
>>>That ICC and WinBoard/XBoard currently don't support doing it like this doesn't
>>>mean it can't be done at all . An enhancement of the WinBoard protocol adding a
>>>"claimdraw" as Miguel A. Ballicora suggested would be a good start .
>>
>>If it was done in winboard and winboard was made compatible with _all_
>>chess servers, this would be easy.  But not all servers handle that case,
>>meaning winboard would have to behave as it does now for those servers that
>>don't...
>>
>
>That's true, but it does not mean that the protocol could be improved.
>Winboard could receive the command "claimdraw move" and send
>move
>1/2-1/2
>to FICS and ICS since these servers do it wrong. When the servers improve
>their protocols, winboard is ready as well all the compatible engines.
>Besides, I wonder if sending those two commands in batch, Winboard could
>improved any possible race condition in the server (before the opponent
>replies).
>
>>>>I have seen that scenario played in major WC type events.  I once watched
>>>>Korchnoi do exactly that in a US Open game...  He made the move on the board,
>>>>wrote it down, claimed a draw, and got the arbiter...
>>>
>>>I don't get your point here - so Korchnoi did wrong ..; the rule explains
>>>exactly how it should be done .
>>>
>>>pete
>>
>>If I am not mistaken, "your move is not completed until you press the clock
>>button to stop your clock and start your opponent's clock."  Therefore making
>>the move on the board does not invalidate a draw claim.
>
>Not under FIDE. 6.1 "The move is completed: in the case of the transfer of a
>piece to a vacant square, when the players hand has released the piece"
>and some other examples.
>
>It is different under USCF (probably, the only place in the world) where
>there is a distinction between move "determined" and "completed" (includes
>punching the clock) (rule 9g, 9g1 and 14c2, 14c4). USCF rules are kind of weird
>because it allows the claiming after moving but it is strongly discouraged and
>not recommended. There is even some contradiction if we read carefully.
>My comment: it is even dangerous to claim in this way. You move and do not
>punch the clock. Well, what if a reply immediately on the board? I just say
>that you forgot to punch the clock. I would not want to be involved in that
>mess...
>
>So Korchnoi did not do it wrong because it was in a US open (aren't US Open
>suppose to be played under FIDE rules so it can be FIDE rated? I wonder)
>Anyway, I would not learn rules from those super-GMs. They many times
>get away with things that no other will.
>
>Regards,
>Miguel

Thank you very much for posting this message ; I was completely puzzled as it
felt like Dr. Hyatt and Andrew Dados were unfriendly and didn't _read_ and
_listen_ where I was _so_ sure to simply be right ;-) .

Another example for the fact that it's always wrong to assume everything is just
the same in other countries .

In Germany the rules have been like the FIDE ones since I have started playing
chess in a chessclub about 20 years ago - it was interesting to learn it used to
be different in the US .

Regards,

pete





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