Author: Christopher R. Dorr
Date: 13:35:00 05/02/01
Go up one level in this thread
On May 02, 2001 at 14:33:30, Gordon Rattray wrote: >On May 02, 2001 at 11:25:38, Christopher R. Dorr wrote: > >>Even if they *did* want to change it, why would Kramnik? It would be quite >>unfair to *him* to ask him to play an opponent whose games he has never had a >>chance to study. It would be like asking him to prepare for a mystery match >>against a world-class GM who he doesn't know, and whose games he is not allowed >>to look at. Totally unfair. >> >>It has been said on here that the production version of Deep Fritz for the match >>will be different from the commercial one. If that is so, why should Kramnik be >>forced to accept that handicap of not seeing any of it's games? Human players >>don't change that much ove a year or two. DF has literally hundreds of Kramniks >>games to study and analyse. Why on earth would Kramnik give away his rights to >>an equal and fair match, i.e. the receiving the program clause? >> >>Chris > > >So, because human players don't change much but computers can, that's a good >enough reason for giving Kramnik a version of the program 3 months before the >match? I very much disagree. No. the reason for doing so is to all Kramnik the same opportunity he would have against any human GM he were to play in an important match. the ability to study the games of his opponent. Determine what he is good at, and what he is not. Why do you want Kramnik to go into this match blind? > >OK, I claim that Kramnik has the advantage of using his imagination during the >match while the computer has no imagination. Can we equalise this one out too? > Nobody is trying to limit the advantages of the computer. No limit is set on the size of it's opening book, it's ply depth, it's speed, it's tablebases, etc., which are *all* advantages it has. Nobody has suggested *anything* likt this. >Stop blaming the computer for being a computer!!! The whole point of any >man-machine match should be to contrast the different strengths and weaknesses. >It's debatable how much a program can change in a short period of time, but if >it is an advantage then don't ask to remove it unless Kramnik is going to >concede some of his advantages. > >If Kramnik (or the organisers) want an easier match, that's fine, but don't >blame people for seeing it for what it is. > It is still crystal clear to me. If Kramnik is stronger (using his intuition, his understanding of Fritz's play gleaned from playing and studying it's games) then he will win. If Fritz is stronger (by virtue of it's *huge* opening book, tablebases, vast depth of search, etc) then *it* will win. The stronger party triumphs. Why handicap Kramnik by denying him what he would have against *any other* world-class opponent. Can you see Anand whining: "It wasn't fair! He beat me because he discovered weaknesses in my game! He looked at my old games! He remembered what happened when we played speed chess! It isn't right!" ? Chris >Gordon > > >> >> >>On May 02, 2001 at 10:25:34, James T. Walker wrote: >> >>>On May 02, 2001 at 09:45:57, Christopher R. Dorr wrote: >>> >>>>Uri, I think there are very few people who feel like you do. I strongly doubt >>>>that this will affect the number of people viewing the match. I simply cannot >>>>see all the people on ICC saying "I was going to watch this great match between >>>>the World Champion and this hugely powerful computer, but Kramnik's going to see >>>>the program ahead of time. Why bother watching. I think I'll go play some >>>>backgammon instead." >>>> >>>>There may be a few who object to this as strenuously as you do, but I think that >>>>number is very few. I don't think the sponsors have any incentive at all to >>>>change that component of the match rules. >>>> >>>>Chris >>>Hello Chris, >>>I believe the sponsors do have an incentive to change that particular component >>>of the match. In fact I don't understand why they would agree to it in the >>>first place. The sponsor who is providing the computer would have a much bigger >>>propaganda coup if their computer wins the match. Giving Kramnik this advantage >>>is not in their best interest. It can only help Kramnik. >>>Jim
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