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Subject: Re: Test your program

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 18:31:22 05/04/01

Go up one level in this thread


On May 04, 2001 at 17:25:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 04, 2001 at 16:29:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 04, 2001 at 14:49:57, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 04, 2001 at 14:10:59, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 04, 2001 at 13:41:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 04, 2001 at 13:33:55, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 04, 2001 at 13:20:51, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 04, 2001 at 10:52:52, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 03, 2001 at 21:03:58, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 03, 2001 at 18:51:08, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>               12    54.72     --   1. ... Qxa3
>>>>>>>>>               12     2:00  -3.04   1. ... Qxa3 2. Bf6 Rfd8 3. Bxd8 Rxd8
>>>>>>>>>                                    4. Rd1 Rd5 5. Qe4 g6 6. Qb4 Qa6 7.
>>>>>>>>>                                    Qf4
>>>>>>>>>               12->   3:19  -3.04   1. ... Qxa3 2. Bf6 Rfd8 3. Bxd8 Rxd8
>>>>>>>>>                                    4. Rd1 Rd5 5. Qe4 g6 6. Qb4 Qa6 7.
>>>>>>>>>                                    Qf4
>>>>>>>>>               13     3:43     --   1. ... Qxa3
>>>>>>>>>               13     5:06   0.00   1. ... Qxa3 2. Bf6 Rfc8 3. Bxg7 Kxg7
>>>>>>>>>                                    4. Qf6+ Kf8 5. Rf1 Rc7 6. Bg6 Re8 7.
>>>>>>>>>                                    Qh8+ Ke7 8. Qf6+ Kf8
>>>>>>>>>               13    11:27     ++   1. ... b4!!
>>>>>>>>>               13    13:05  -0.76   1. ... b4 2. cxb4 Qd5 3. Rf1 Rae8 4.
>>>>>>>>>                                    Bf2 f5 5. exf6 Qxg2 6. Bd4 Rf7 7. Bxa7
>>>>>>>>>                                    Qd5
>>>>>>>>>               13    13:40     ++   1. ... Rfe8!!
>>>>>>>>>               13    14:40  -2.30   1. ... Rfe8 2. Rf1 Qf8 3. Qe4 g6 4.
>>>>>>>>>                                    Kb2 Rec8 5. Bf6 Rc7 6. Qf4 Rd7 7. h4
>>>>>>>>>                                    a5 8. Be4
>>>>>>>>>               13    15:40  -2.63   1. ... Rfc8 2. Qe4 g6 3. Rf1 Qf8 4.
>>>>>>>>>                                    Kb2 Rc7 5. Qg4 c5 6. Bxb5 Rb8 7. g3
>>>>>>>>>                                    Be4
>>>>>>>>>               13->  16:21  -2.63   1. ... Rfc8 2. Qe4 g6 3. Rf1 Qf8 4.
>>>>>>>>>                                    Kb2 Rc7 5. Qg4 c5 6. Bxb5 Rb8 7. g3
>>>>>>>>>                                    Be4
>>>>>>>>>              time=16:39  cpu=100%  mat=-3  n=596994678  fh=91%  nps=597k
>>>>>>>>>              ext-> chk=29940411 cap=1174947 pp=514823 1rep=4254557 mate=419833
>>>>>>>>>              predicted=0  nodes=596994678  evals=102285376
>>>>>>>>>              endgame tablebase-> probes done=0  successful=0
>>>>>>>>>Black(1): quit
>>>>>>>>>execution complete.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mine looks a bit different on the quad.  2:18 to drop Qxa3.  Note that I used
>>>>>>>>hash=192M for the run...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>               12    38.66     --   1. ... Qxa3
>>>>>>>>               12     1:27  -1.65   1. ... Qxa3 2. Bf6 Rfc8 3. Bxg7 Kxg7
>>>>>>>>                                    4. Qf6+ Kf8 5. Bg6 Rc7 6. Rf1 Re8 7.
>>>>>>>>                                    Qh8+ Ke7 8. Rxf7+ Kd8 9. Qxe8+ Kxe8
>>>>>>>>                                    10. Rxc7+ Kd8 11. Rxb7 Qxc3 12. Rxa7
>>>>>>>>                                    Qxe5
>>>>>>>>               12     2:18     ++   1. ... a5!!
>>>>>>>>               12     3:39  -2.57   1. ... a5 2. Bf6 Rfc8 3. Qg4 Qf8 4.
>>>>>>>>                                    Qe4 g6 5. Kb2 Qc5 6. Rd1 Ra6 7. Qf4
>>>>>>>>               12     4:07  -2.58   1. ... Rfb8 2. Qe4 g6 3. Rf1 Qf8 4.
>>>>>>>>                                    Kb2 c5 5. Qg4 g5 6. Bf2 c4 7. Be2
>>>>>>>>         (4)   12->   4:18  -2.58   1. ... Rfb8 2. Qe4 g6 3. Rf1 Qf8 4.
>>>>>>>>                                    Kb2 c5 5. Qg4 g5 6. Bf2 c4 7. Be2
>>>>>>>>         (3)   13     5:25  -2.52   1. ... Rfb8 2. Kb2 Rc8 3. Rf1 Rc7 4.
>>>>>>>>                                    Qe4 g6 5. Rxf7 Rxf7 6. Qxg6+ Kf8 7.
>>>>>>>>                                    Qxh6+ Kg8 8. Qg6+ Rg7 9. Qxe6+ Rf7
>>>>>>>>               13     7:40  -2.54   1. ... Rfc8 2. Rf1 Qf8 3. Qe4 g6 4.
>>>>>>>>                                    Kb2 Rc7 5. Bf6 c5 6. Qg4 c4 7. Be2
>>>>>>>>                                    Rd7 8. h4
>>>>>>>>               13     8:00  -2.55   1. ... Rfe8 2. Kb2 Rab8 3. Rd1 Qf8
>>>>>>>>                                    4. Qe4 g6 5. Bf6 c5 6. Qg4 c4 7. Be2
>>>>>>>>                                    Qc5
>>>>>>>>         (3)   13->   8:00  -2.55   1. ... Rfe8 2. Kb2 Rab8 3. Rd1 Qf8
>>>>>>>>                                    4. Qe4 g6 5. Bf6 c5 6. Qg4 c4 7. Be2
>>>>>>>>                                    Qc5
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I will have some 64-cpu alpha numbers in a month or two.  Working on a port
>>>>>>>>to use UPC right now...  Compaq is loaning me a single-cpu alpha to compile/test
>>>>>>>>on with the target of a 64 cpu machine they have.  I will try to get it on to
>>>>>>>>ICC on a weekend maybe...  Or maybe for the next CCT.  :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Prophecy:
>>>>>>>You will win the next WCCC[*]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[*] Unless someone else does the same port.  There is no other machine that even
>>>>>>>comes close.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am not so sure that it is enough to win.
>>>>>>In the last 2 WCCC tournament the biggest hardware did not win.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Deep thought failed to win in 1995(Fritz3 was the champion)
>>>>>>Deep Junior,Deep Fritz,Ferret failed to win in 1999 and Shredder won.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In the last two WCCC's there were no programs that were _really_ searching
>>>>>at 60M nodes per second either.  :)
>>>>
>>>>Yes but in the WCCC of 1995 Fritz was also clearly slower and I also believe in
>>>>diminishing returns so 2M against 60M is not the same as
>>>>0.1M against 3M.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't believe in "diminishing" returns when it is computer vs computer.  Give
>>>me that extra ply _any_ day.  It will swing the match in my favor if my opponent
>>>and I are equal at equal search depths.
>>
>>I believe in diminishing returns between different programs for the same reason
>>that diminishing return may happen in comp-human games.
>>
>>At small depthes tactics dominates so the 30 times fastesr program usually wins.
>>
>>At big depthes there are things that one program understands and the second
>>program does not understand when depth is not going to help.
>>
>>If 2 different programs have different positional weaknesses then the slower
>>program has practical chances to win at big depthes.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>
>OK... then at _today's_ computer speeds, I don't believe in diminishing
>returns yet.  In 20 years, perhaps.  But the difference between a 15 ply
>search and a 17 ply search is _significant_ still.  Lots of experiments have
>shown that diminishing returns don't appear to happen at any depth we can
>reach today, even using 24 hours of computer time.

The only valid experiment is games and I do not know about games between depth
15 and depth 17.

Uri



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