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Subject: Re: Big-O notation

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 11:08:10 05/09/01

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On May 09, 2001 at 14:04:55, Eugene Nalimov wrote:

>Uri, there is branch of the mathematics (not even computer science, just
>ordinary mathematics) that studies the complexity of algorithms. Algorithms were
>used in mathematics long before computers appeared, for example GCD algorithm
>was known to the classic greeks.
>
>*Very* rude explanation of big-O notation is: you have the algorithm that
>require M operations (or steps, or machine instructions, or clock cycles, etc.)
>when input in N elements long. You are increasing length of the input; how much
>operations will be necessary now? That has *nothing* to do with the fact that
>majority of practically used algorithms will terminate in finite number of steps
>when input is finite.
>
>Eugene


But the the length of the input does not increase and that's the whole point.


>
>On May 09, 2001 at 13:37:58, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 09, 2001 at 13:23:25, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On May 09, 2001 at 13:18:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 09, 2001 at 11:27:46, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 09, 2001 at 10:12:30, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 09, 2001 at 02:00:25, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For those of you who don't want to perform your own web search, just choose one
>>>>>>>of these:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://hissa.nist.gov/dads/HTML/bigOnotation.html
>>>>>>>http://bio5495.wustl.edu/textbook-html/node15.html
>>>>>>>http://umastr.math.umass.edu/~holden/Math136-99_projects/Amstutz-OBoyle-Petravage/big-o.html
>>>>>>>http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~ellard/Q-97/HTML/root/node8.html
>>>>>>>http://classes.monterey.edu/CST/CST338-01/world/BigO.html
>>>>>>>http://shalim.csustan.edu/~john/Classes/CS3100_DataStructures/Previous_Semesters/1999_04_Fall/Examples/big-O
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>CS:201, FCOL!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Big-O notation is used to describe asymtotic behavior. It commonly used to
>>>>>>describe the "running time" of an algorithm. If an algorithm is O(f(n)), n is
>>>>>>understood to be a finite, but *unbounded*. (For some reason, "unbounded" gets
>>>>>>confused with infinity. This is an error, but let's not get into that. It isn't
>>>>>>relevant here)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In chess, n in is bounded. This is a critical distinction, that means chess is
>>>>>>*not* NP.
>>>>>
>>>>>GREAT!  Then it's computable.  What's the answer, win-loss-draw?
>>>>>;-)
>>>>
>>>>I see no point in continuing to argue.
>>>>The question is simply question of definition.
>>>>I did not say that it is easy to solve.
>>>>
>>>>I use the definition of NP only for problems with n that is not bounded
>>>>otherwise the mathematical definition say that it is O(1)(there is a constant
>>>>and the only problem is that it is too large)
>>>>
>>>>I can agree that chess is practically O(exp(n)) and not polynomial for practical
>>>>purposes but it does not change the fact that by mathematical definition it is
>>>>O(1).
>>>
>>>This is simply wrong.  I guess we are at an impasse.
>>>
>>>>You can say that Sorting is also O(1) from theoretical point of view if you look
>>>>at sorting that is done by a computer.
>>>
>>>Show me any algorithms book that says any sorting algorithm is O(1).
>>
>>The sorting from theoretical point of view is not O(1) because the size of the
>>input is not bounded.
>>Sorting done by a computer has bounded size and every problem of bounded size is
>>O(1) by the definition that I know.
>>
>>A problem can be O(n) only if n is not bounded by a finite bound by the
>>definition that I use.
>>
>>I look at sorting from mathematical point of view and not from computer point of
>>view and this is the reason that I said that it is not O(1).
>>
>>Uri



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