Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: The problem with big-O is one of definitions

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 17:37:06 05/09/01

Go up one level in this thread


On May 09, 2001 at 20:29:49, Vincent Vega wrote:

>On May 09, 2001 at 20:05:24, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On May 09, 2001 at 20:00:09, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>>
>>>On May 09, 2001 at 19:34:08, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 09, 2001 at 19:31:32, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>If someone pays you to give an algorithm analysis of chess will you really
>>>>>>report that it is O(1)?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes and I will point to the access of Nalimov EGTBs as an example of such an
>>>>>algorithm. I will observe that in principle 5-man EGTBs can be extended to
>>>>>32-man EGTBS, though this has no practical significance.
>>>>
>>>>This is an incompetent assessment.  32 man EGTB's cannot even conceivably be
>>>>attempted if half the universe were turned into computers and the other half
>>>>computed madly until the power went out.
>>>
>>>Dan, it seems to me that Ricardo is presenting a logical argument here.  I don't
>>>think the argument is refuted by you calling it incompetent!
>>>
>>>Similarly, I don't see why the practical difficulties of constructing 32 man
>>>EGTBs should detract from their theoretical existance.
>>
>>Because if you can't make one, it won't ever exist.
>>
>
>Lowest estimates of the number of atoms in the Universe are about 10^30 times
>larger than the estimates of the number of tablebase entries needed to play
>perfect chess from the starting position.  This doesn't even take into account
>the fact that only a very small fraction of these positions have a chance of
>occurring in a game played perfectly by one side and that compressing them is
>quite possible.  So please stop perpetuating this "Universe" nonsense.

There are an estimated 10^82nd elementary particles in the universe.

There are an estimated 10^50th chess positions.  Each chess position is
complicated by half-move clock, fullmove number and castle rights.

In other words:
2rq1rk1/3bbppp/p3pn2/1p1pN3/2nP1B2/P1NBP2Q/1P3PPP/2R2RK1 w - - 3 45
and
2rq1rk1/3bbppp/p3pn2/1p1pN3/2nP1B2/P1NBP2Q/1P3PPP/2R2RK1 w - - 2 30
are completely different positions.

Now, how many atoms will it take you to make a transistor?





This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.