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Subject: Re: Ply Tournament No pgn just text

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:08:47 05/12/01

Go up one level in this thread


On May 12, 2001 at 06:20:11, Chris Taylor wrote:

>On May 11, 2001 at 22:11:23, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 11, 2001 at 15:10:30, Chris Taylor wrote:
>>
>>>I ran this 6 ply tournament. On a PIII 733, and used Nunn Test, then all play
>>>all.
>>>It was a collection of Chessbase/Fritz compatable programs.
>>>I was curious to see what would happen? I used ELOStat version 1.1b by
>>>Frank Schubert to analyse the results.
>>>What has suprised me is the result of Hiarcs, version 6 and 7.32....
>>>Finaly, the number chosen for the final elo calc was a base of 2300.
>>>I understand this is not any basis for any conclusion, other than, it was fun!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>The reason for the result is the experiment is flawed.  You had too many
>>things you changed when you chose ply as the limit.  IE you should compare
>>the _time_ taken in (say) the hiarcs vs crafty match.  I'll bet Crafty was
>>searching in a fraction of a second, while hiarcs was taking many seconds
>>per move...
>>
>>that kind of handicap is typical when you do a "ply" test with different
>>programs since different programs use completely different types of searches.
>
>I understand the ply diff, and how programs implement this can vary.  You for
>one have said so.  For example, Junior has just beaten Hiarcs by a LARGE margin?
> Like you said, it took, in some cases minutes.  BTW Ply =11 was shown, for
>Junior 6, even though 6 ply was the tournament setting.
>I maintain that to look at the first three moves, gives an indication of how
>programs see this brief look at the complex game of chess.  It was interesting.
>
>Chris


Just don't forget that the "first 6 moves" depend _greatly_ on the moves
searched beyond that point...  If one program searches far beyond that
"six plies" then its first six moves will by definition be better than a
program that _only_ searches to depth=6 for everything.



>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>The games are available, and so is medication.............
>>>
>>>Chris Taylor
>>>
>>>10 programs, 900 games
>>>
>>>Games        :    900 (finished)
>>>
>>>White Wins   :    395 (43.9 %)
>>>Black Wins   :    351 (39.0 %)
>>>Draws        :    154 (17.1 %)
>>>Unfinished   :      0
>>>
>>>White Perf.  : 52.4 %
>>>Black Perf.  : 47.6 %
>>>
>>>ECO A =     90 Games (10.0 %)
>>>ECO B =    270 Games (30.0 %)
>>>ECO C =    180 Games (20.0 %)
>>>ECO D =    180 Games (20.0 %)
>>>ECO E =    180 Games (20.0 %)
>>>
>>>Individual statistics:
>>>
>>>(1) Hiarcs 6.0                : 180 (+140,= 24,- 16), 84.4 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+ 14,=  4,-  2), 80.0 %
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+ 19,=  0,-  1), 95.0 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+ 17,=  2,-  1), 90.0 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+ 19,=  1,-  0), 97.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+ 16,=  3,-  1), 87.5 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+ 16,=  3,-  1), 87.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+ 18,=  1,-  1), 92.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  8,=  5,-  7), 52.5 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+ 13,=  5,-  2), 77.5 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(2) Hiarcs 7.32               : 180 (+137,= 29,- 14), 84.2 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+ 17,=  3,-  0), 92.5 %
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+ 16,=  4,-  0), 90.0 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+ 17,=  3,-  0), 92.5 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+ 17,=  3,-  0), 92.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+ 15,=  3,-  2), 82.5 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+ 15,=  3,-  2), 82.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  7,=  5,-  8), 47.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+ 17,=  2,-  1), 90.0 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+ 16,=  3,-  1), 87.5 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(3) Nimzo 7.32                : 180 (+ 80,= 35,- 65), 54.2 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+ 13,=  1,-  6), 67.5 %
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+  7,=  6,-  7), 50.0 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+ 13,=  4,-  3), 75.0 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+ 11,=  6,-  3), 70.0 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+ 13,=  3,-  4), 72.5 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+  8,=  7,-  5), 57.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  2,=  5,- 13), 22.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+ 12,=  0,-  8), 60.0 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  1,=  3,- 16), 12.5 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(4) Gambit Tiger 2.0          : 180 (+ 70,= 33,- 77), 48.1 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+  8,=  5,-  7), 52.5 %
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+ 11,=  1,-  8), 57.5 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+  9,=  4,-  7), 55.0 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+ 12,=  4,-  4), 70.0 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+ 11,=  5,-  4), 67.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  1,=  3,- 16), 12.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+ 11,=  1,-  8), 57.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  2,=  3,- 15), 17.5 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+  5,=  7,-  8), 42.5 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(5) Comet B32                 : 180 (+ 63,= 33,- 84), 44.2 %
>>>
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+  4,=  8,-  8), 40.0 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+  9,=  4,-  7), 55.0 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+ 10,=  3,-  7), 57.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+ 13,=  2,-  5), 70.0 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+  7,=  5,-  8), 47.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  2,=  4,- 14), 20.0 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+ 12,=  3,-  5), 67.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  0,=  3,- 17),  7.5 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+  6,=  1,- 13), 32.5 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(6) Fritz 5.32                : 180 (+ 68,= 15,- 97), 41.9 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+  5,=  3,- 12), 32.5 %
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+ 12,=  4,-  4), 70.0 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+  9,=  2,-  9), 50.0 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+ 11,=  1,-  8), 57.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+ 13,=  1,-  6), 67.5 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+  8,=  1,- 11), 42.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  1,=  1,- 18),  7.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  1,=  2,- 17), 10.0 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+  8,=  0,- 12), 40.0 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(7) Crafty 17.14              : 180 (+ 51,= 40,- 89), 39.4 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+  8,=  8,-  4), 60.0 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+  7,=  8,-  5), 55.0 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+  7,=  4,-  9), 45.0 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+  9,=  5,-  6), 57.5 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+  8,=  1,- 11), 42.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  1,=  0,- 19),  5.0 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+  4,=  4,- 12), 30.0 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  0,=  4,- 16), 10.0 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+  7,=  6,-  7), 50.0 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(8) Fritz 3.10                : 180 (+ 51,= 33,- 96), 37.5 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+  7,=  4,-  9), 45.0 %
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+  5,=  8,-  7), 45.0 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+  9,=  3,-  8), 52.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+ 10,=  3,-  7), 57.5 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+  7,=  4,-  9), 45.0 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  1,=  2,- 17), 10.0 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+  9,=  2,-  9), 50.0 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  0,=  3,- 17),  7.5 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+  3,=  4,- 13), 25.0 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(9) Fritz 4.01                : 180 (+ 47,= 33,-100), 35.3 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+  7,=  3,- 10), 42.5 %
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+  9,=  4,-  7), 55.0 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+  8,=  3,-  9), 47.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.00                    :  20 (+  8,=  8,-  4), 60.0 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+  4,=  4,- 12), 30.0 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  0,=  1,- 19),  2.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+  8,=  1,- 11), 42.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  0,=  3,- 17),  7.5 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+  3,=  6,- 11), 30.0 %
>>>
>>>
>>>(10) Fritz 5.00               : 180 (+ 39,= 33,-108), 30.8 %
>>>
>>>Comet B32                     :  20 (+  5,=  2,- 13), 30.0 %
>>>Crafty 17.14                  :  20 (+  6,=  5,-  9), 42.5 %
>>>Fritz 3.10                    :  20 (+  7,=  3,- 10), 42.5 %
>>>Fritz 4.01                    :  20 (+  4,=  8,-  8), 40.0 %
>>>Gambit Tiger 2.0              :  20 (+  4,=  5,- 11), 32.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 6.0                    :  20 (+  1,=  3,- 16), 12.5 %
>>>Fritz 5.32                    :  20 (+  6,=  1,- 13), 32.5 %
>>>Hiarcs 7.32                   :  20 (+  2,=  3,- 15), 17.5 %
>>>Nimzo 7.32                    :  20 (+  4,=  3,- 13), 27.5 %
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Program               Score     %    Av.Op.  Elo    +   -    Draws
>>>
>>>  1 Hiarcs 6.0        : 152.0/180  84.4   2262   2556   33  98   13.3 %
>>>  2 Hiarcs 7.32       : 151.5/180  84.2   2263   2553   33  91   16.1 %
>>>  3 Nimzo 7.32        :  97.5/180  54.2   2289   2318   49  46   19.4 %
>>>  4 Gambit Tiger 2.0  :  86.5/180  48.1   2293   2279   45  51   18.3 %
>>>  5 Comet B32         :  79.5/180  44.2   2296   2255   47  48   18.3 %
>>>  6 Fritz 5.32        :  75.5/180  41.9   2297   2241   55  46    8.3 %
>>>  7 Crafty 17.14      :  71.0/180  39.4   2299   2225   49  44   22.2 %
>>>  8 Fritz 3.10        :  67.5/180  37.5   2300   2212   53  43   18.3 %
>>>  9 Fritz 4.01        :  63.5/180  35.3   2302   2197   55  42   18.3 %
>>> 10 Fritz 5.00        :  55.5/180  30.8   2306   2165   60  39   18.3 %
>>>
>>>END><



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