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Subject: Re: Kramnik vs. Deep Fritz (anyone planning a counter demonstration)?

Author: Ed Panek

Date: 16:00:24 05/13/01

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On May 13, 2001 at 17:31:14, Robert Raese wrote:

>On May 12, 2001 at 19:04:10, Ed Panek wrote:
>
>>On May 12, 2001 at 15:56:42, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>
>>>On May 12, 2001 at 15:44:36, Aaron Tay wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 12, 2001 at 15:26:13, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 12, 2001 at 14:43:12, Chris Kantack wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I guess I'm on the side that Kramnik (having access to Deep Fritz months ahead
>>>>>>of time), will have little trouble winning the match.   Indeed, he may be able
>>>>>>to play the entire match with 99% of the moves already "practiced".
>>>>>
>>>>>I doubt that Kramnik has an 8 processor cpu at home so he cannot "prepare"
>>>>>anything unless he own or have access to identical hardware. On an 8 processor
>>>>>cpu it would be a whole different game as to just playing against a dual or
>>>>>single cpu, the program running on 8 processors would look deeper and come up
>>>>>with bettter moves!
>>>>
>>>>You make it seem
>>>>like Kramnik  is going to beat fritz at home, [after numerous takebacks]
>>>>then memorise the moves and then repeat them ..LOL .
>>>
>>>Maby you should read my post again.. where in the above post do i claim or imply
>>>that Kramnik is going to beat Fritz (at any hardware) with takebacks??
>>>If Kramnik finds a winning line against Fritz 7 on a single processor cpu, then
>>>i am quite sure that it will not be a winning line on an 8 processor cpu because
>>>of the simple fact that he would get into a different game on the 8 pr unit than
>>>on the single cpu that was my point, and i think it is important to remember
>>>that when talking about how "easy" it will be for Kramnik when he can prepare
>>>month's in advance. Also Kramnik have no way of knowing if that copy he gets 3
>>>month's before is infact the same as the one he is going to face!!
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>Jonas
>>
>>
>>Jonas,
>>
>>   I wish I could agree with you, but 8 processors vs 1 at  standard time
>>control will not allow the program to overcome any deficiencies Kramnik will
>>find in it. Searching one more ply for example will not change a poor evaluation
>>for a position. A program that doesnt understand how to play certain positions
>>will not "learn" how to play them by looking one ply deeper. 8 processors will
>>help Fritz tactically, but Kramnik will have already conceded tactics to the
>>beast on his home PIII 800 or anything else for that matter. A nominal computer
>>today is better than Kramnik at tactics. Speeding it up isnt going to help if
>>Kramnik understands the positions to avoid. Once he gets the program home he
>>will _LEARN_ how to draw and then beat it.
>>
>>  For an analogy imagine a boxer and a wrestler are going to have a street
>>fight. The boxer will do what he does best and so will the wrestler. I would put
>>my money on the wrestler. The reason being is that in order for the boxer to win
>>he must force the wrestler to box which is difficult. In order for the wrestler
>>to win he must force the boxer to wrestle which is easier to do.here the boxer
>>has to land a devastating blow to the boxer to win. If the boxer and the wrestle
>>engage or go to the floor it is all over. Kramnik will do the same...play safe
>>openings and proceed with caution not allowing the computer any short term
>>attacks. THe position will look even or that Fritz is winning, but in reality as
>>the endgame approaches Kramnik will have a plan to beat or draw the computer.
>>
>>
>>Ed
>
>good analogy ed... are you a fan of ultimate fighting?  i am, and have been for
>years... and that is the biggest lesson the world of martial arts has learned
>with the advent and rise of "no holds barred" fighting competitions which match
>style against style, sort of like the old "kumite" only not fighting to the
>death... fighting until one fighter is out cold or taps the mat to signal
>submission...
>
>the ground is the grappler's "ocean" and once he gets you there, he is the shark
>and you don't know how to swim...  the boxers, kung fu, karate, and muy thai
>practitioners have all had to add ground skills to their repetoire to stay
>competitive in the "brave new" fight world.
>
>your analogy got me thinking again how all forms of conflict, mental or
>physical, follow certain basic laws... thanks for the post.  :)


 thanks- yes I am a fan of the UFC. I remember watching Royce Gracie subdue just
about any person he went up against. He only weighed about 160lbs, but he knew
how to fight like a Boa Constrictor. I havent watched the latest ones... I also
remember Dan Severyn and Oleg Taktarov taking a complete beating in previous
fights :)

Ed



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